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Old January 24th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #21
Rainbird1099
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
These are the very things going on today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not everyone can be special ops. someone has to peel the potatoes too.
yes they are fighting terorists, and hunting them, but to me it seems re-building and re-structuring entire countries is quiet a task. And where will it end how many countries, have a political system we don't agree with and feel we should change.
There are Terorists in Iraq, there is also a religious civil was that has been going on for longer than I know.
How many of our soilders have died due to fighting, or trying to police this civil war while try to re-build this goverment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sadaam should have been left there, or that things were any better before we came there.
Maybe I have a misconception, is the religous war, and all the fighting in the Iraqy streets completely terorist related?
I'm not going to say this war is just because of oil, or anything like that.
I appreciate everyone who has served, and battled, and or lost thier life for our country.
How many have given thier lifes, for things un-related. If I signed up to serve our country, I would expect to serve our country. I would not sign up for a war like the first gulf war, where we fought to get Iraq out of Kuwait, you can disagree if you want, but if there would have been a draft for us to fight a war for a hostile take over of another country (like Kuwait v. Iraq) I would not go. Leave that war for those looking for a military I am not.
It's not that I wouldn't serve for the right cause, but I don't want to sign up to fight the next kuwait-Iraq, or something of that nature.
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Old January 24th, 2007, 04:19 PM   #22
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And by the way...

The draft reinstatement idea came from the House Jackasses... not Bush.. http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Nov...yDraft,00.html
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Old January 24th, 2007, 04:34 PM   #23
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And by the way...

The draft reinstatement idea came from the House Jackasses... not Bush.. http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Nov...yDraft,00.html
How come you feel the need to allways start name calling??

I think the manditory 2 year induction would be awesome towards bringing the US out of obesity and teaching a lot of punks some responsibility.

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Old January 24th, 2007, 05:40 PM   #24
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How come you feel the need to all way start name calling??

I think the manditory 2 year induction would be awesome towards bringing the US out of obesity and teaching a lot of punks some responsibility.

what about underweight and responsible
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Old January 24th, 2007, 06:59 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Rainbird1099 View Post
yes they are fighting terorists, and hunting them, but to me it seems re-building and re-structuring entire countries is quiet a task. And where will it end how many countries, have a political system we don't agree with and feel we should change.
There are Terorists in Iraq, there is also a religious civil was that has been going on for longer than I know.
How many of our soilders have died due to fighting, or trying to police this civil war while try to re-build this goverment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sadaam should have been left there, or that things were any better before we came there.
Maybe I have a misconception, is the religous war, and all the fighting in the Iraqy streets completely terorist related?
I'm not going to say this war is just because of oil, or anything like that.
I appreciate everyone who has served, and battled, and or lost thier life for our country.
How many have given thier lifes, for things un-related. If I signed up to serve our country, I would expect to serve our country. I would not sign up for a war like the first gulf war, where we fought to get Iraq out of Kuwait, you can disagree if you want, but if there would have been a draft for us to fight a war for a hostile take over of another country (like Kuwait v. Iraq) I would not go. Leave that war for those looking for a military I am not.
It's not that I wouldn't serve for the right cause, but I don't want to sign up to fight the next kuwait-Iraq, or something of that nature.
Saddam Hussein was harboring, supporting, funding and encouraging terrorists groups. That was the intelligence from my understanding that sent us there in the first place. That and the WMD thing which I dont think anyone will ever understand until alot of classsified information is released.

I dont think thier is a need to take over every country we dont like but if the unstability of the country is contributing to volitility of an entire region, especially a region which produces our oil, which despite what anyone says is the source of this economies strength, and is producing the terrorists who are blowing thousands of our own people up.

In that case putting a friendly, and stable government in is helpful it will become a country to stabilize a region not contribute to it's delinquency. The trick is just what you said. its a long process. Pulling out early, cutting your losses and saying ahh fukc em is the exact reason why that region is the way it is today. The russians did it during the cold war, Hitler did it in ww2 before them and we did it before the first Iraqi war. no wonder the middle easterners hate the east they have been fucked by every alli who supported them or encouraged them to fight.

People need to become educated on the history of a conflict before they start shouting off half-cocked opinions and myths. Sadly no-one does. They listen to senators who know they are uneducated on the subject and want press time to show thier face and win votes by saying "save our troops".

Sorry guys end rant :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw:
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Old January 24th, 2007, 07:00 PM   #26
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Good idea on the mandatory service though......never thought of that as a solution.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 01:02 AM   #27
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I agree mandatory service would do society a lot of good in general, and you would get commitments from a lot more people.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 02:34 AM   #28
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what about underweight and responsible


Thats an advantage you might be able to out run some slow moving car bombs. Must be in the water my friends call me a stick. I would be willing to go for sure if I had to or if I wasnt going to college.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 07:47 PM   #29
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Toivo, Rainbird, etc... you're all missing a key point.

It isn't about what you want, prefer, favor, or think is worthy of you. It's about being a part of something bigger than yourself and following orders - orders designed to benefit / protect the whole, potentially at the risk of the one. It's not a democracy.

As I said, the guys at Anzio, Battle of Wake Island, Gettysburg, Yorktown, and The Wilderness would rather have been somewhere else, doing something safer. But they weren't and they didn't.

It's about DUTY, which is defined as "the binding or obligatory force of something that is morally or legally right; moral or legal obligation".

Where would this country be without people who felt a duty to do something that potentially put them in harm's way? I'll give you a clue - you probably wouldn't have the freedom to choose not to participate.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 08:48 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Guy La Douche
I refuse to support something by force that I do not believe in anyways.
Yeah, we should have just turned our back on Iraq and Saddam. He was a pretty good guy anyways. Its not like he was killing innocent women and children. Who gives a shit about anyone that doesn't live in the US anyways? They don't deserve what we have.
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Old January 25th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #31
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It's about DUTY, which is defined as "the binding or obligatory force of something that is morally or legally right; moral or legal obligation".
But what if you don't think that the war you're being asked to fight is "morally or legally right"?
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Old January 25th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #32
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But what if you don't think that the war you're being asked to fight is "morally or legally right"?
I'll be accused of not being a "free thinker" here, but I can't think of war we've been in that wasn't morally and legally right.

I won't say that they've all been planned or executed perfectly, or that we've always had a clear definition of scope (especially in the last 45 years), but we've always been on the right side (even if our "allies" weren't always the best friends to have).

However, the point is when you're in the military, it's not up to you. You're part of a larger whole and have a role to fill where you (the individual) are less important thatn the collective whole. This is tough concept in our self-indulgent society.

Just like I don't understand or feel sympathy for Marine Corps pacifists. Come on, did you get confused and think you joined the Peace Corps? :miff:

This is why we aren't ready for a draft.

Our military is a more professional organization, and therefore has no capacity or interest in dealing with the wrong type of people. That's also the beauty of our free society where those that are not suited to it don't have to go.

Let's just not forget, that (cliche warning) this free society we enjoy exists not because of protestors, superiority-addled college students, the ACLU, writers, journalists, show business personalities, vague celebrities, or professional politicians. It exists because regular people fought, died, and were disabled (physically and/or mentally) for it. It continues to exist because others followed them and stand ready to do their duty (even if they don't always agree fully).
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Old January 25th, 2007, 10:10 PM   #33
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Yeah, we should have just turned our back on Iraq and Saddam. He was a pretty good guy anyways. Its not like he was killing innocent women and children. Who gives a shit about anyone that doesn't live in the US anyways? They don't deserve what we have.
I compleatly agree with that statment. To bad it didn't happen and we are now part of Vietnam part Deux.
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Old January 26th, 2007, 12:18 AM   #34
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I'll be accused of not being a "free thinker" here, but I can't think of war we've been in that wasn't morally and legally right.

I won't say that they've all been planned or executed perfectly, or that we've always had a clear definition of scope (especially in the last 45 years), but we've always been on the right side (even if our "allies" weren't always the best friends to have).

However, the point is when you're in the military, it's not up to you. You're part of a larger whole and have a role to fill where you (the individual) are less important thatn the collective whole. This is tough concept in our self-indulgent society.

Just like I don't understand or feel sympathy for Marine Corps pacifists. Come on, did you get confused and think you joined the Peace Corps? :miff:

This is why we aren't ready for a draft.

Our military is a more professional organization, and therefore has no capacity or interest in dealing with the wrong type of people. That's also the beauty of our free society where those that are not suited to it don't have to go.
Morals being a personal matter, and legal depending on whos laws you choose to follow, we could debate til our fingers are bloody stumps and not agree on which wars where "morally and legally right". I do agree that if you have volenteered to join the military of the US of A you have agreed to go fight the battles that the comander and chief has decided needed to be faught.

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Let's just not forget, that (cliche warning) this free society we enjoy exists not because of protestors, superiority-addled college students, the ACLU, writers, journalists, show business personalities, vague celebrities, or professional politicians. It exists because regular people fought, died, and were disabled (physically and/or mentally) for it. It continues to exist because others followed them and stand ready to do their duty (even if they don't always agree fully).
I agree, but I think it's our right and our duty to use the freedoms we enjoy to express our opinions and let the decision makers know how we feel. Anything less would be unAmerican and a disrespect to those "regular people [who] fought, died, and were disabled (physically and/or mentally) for it"
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Old January 26th, 2007, 07:34 AM   #35
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If you are already thinking of running to Canada, go. It is easy to find, go East until you cross water. Then continue for about 200 miles.
Are you a coward? Nope. A self-centered, whiny little bitch maybe. It's all about you, so take yourself and go.

And don't come back!
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Old January 26th, 2007, 07:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Rainbird1099 View Post
Does anyone think Bush will impliment a draft?

If it is done how do they determine who goes?
Do they go by age first?



YES BRING IT ON IF THEY DONT WANT TO FIGHT TO BAD !!!!!

FIGHT OR DIE !!!!

WHAT HAPPENED TO A LITTLE PRIDE

MY BROTHER WAS SENT TO BAGDAD 4 TIMES. I WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IF IT WAS NOT FOR MY KNEE REPLACEMENT AT AGE 19
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Old January 26th, 2007, 08:03 AM   #37
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When put in harm's way, the soldier is due an honest endeaver based on truth, not fabrications and then subsequent changing mission statements to save a politicians face. Idealogues pushing an agenda, none of whom have walked the walk before and in fact most of whom have dodged commitments have no credibility period. To have such "patriots" being blindly followed by the masses results in what we've got now. How does he sleep, quite easily I suspect
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Old January 26th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #38
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wow, deleted post! You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!
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Old January 26th, 2007, 11:20 AM   #39
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Ah, Rainbird's a pussy I see, deleting his post....
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Old January 26th, 2007, 01:07 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Icemanii View Post
If you are already thinking of running to Canada, go. It is easy to find, go East until you cross water. Then continue for about 200 miles.
Are you a coward? Nope. A self-centered, whiny little bitch maybe. It's all about you, so take yourself and go.

And don't come back!
Funny when people look at the supposed facts and disagree they then become whiny little bitches.

I see what your saying but you can't not see that people don't want to have a chance of dieing in something that they don't believe in. I don't believe in Iraq and don't believe in the fact that they could have hurt us but I do believe in the US and would go if I was drafted because the current administration can't stay in office forever. I feel bad for the ones that will pay in the future due to this administration which is ALL OF US!

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