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Old January 2nd, 2007, 09:36 PM   #1
artistic_gore
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Default Does anyone have any tips for an engine swap?

Later this week I am going to swap the 20R out of my 1980 (yeah I'm keeping it for now) as well as the 4 speed. I am just wondering if any of the experts have any tricks of the trade that I should now about before I just start to randomly unbolt shit. Any help would be appreciated. I think I may have asked this before but my memory sucks and I finally got a cherry picker (basically for free) so this time I might actually use the info to get this bastard running. I'll probably be asking several questions over the next week or two while I work on the swap.

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Old January 2nd, 2007, 10:03 PM   #2
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well...what are you swapping it out for?another 20R?5sp?
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 10:12 PM   #3
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all the info you need on all different swaps i go 4.3 out of a chevy

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459180
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Old January 2nd, 2007, 10:43 PM   #4
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All I'm doing is putting in a 22R w/5sp (The engine came with the truck), My concern and where I would like advice is in getting the old engine out and possibly what sensors and stuff are on the 22R that aren't on the 20. The 22R is the old style, it came out of an 83 AFAIK. My plans for now are to keep the 20R head and eventually use that and maybe go propane. I told my wife I would keep the truck under $2k and so far I am out about $800 if you don't count the tools I have been getting to do the job. But I want to do cross over steering, a mild lift, lockers, better birfs (can't wait 'til tax time). And eventually I will do a real engine swap.

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Old January 3rd, 2007, 10:39 PM   #5
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the 22r has an ass load of vacume lines and they are a bitch to keep strait. I am not sure how close they are to the 20r but I am willing to bet that they are fairly different.

what you should really do is buy my 4runner........you would get the lift, the best 5 speed there was, tires/wheels, the IFS steering box for your crossover, all the parts needed to make that 22r run off factory FI (my truck is running an 83 22r off factory 85 FI), the later....better front axle, a wider Ifs rear axle, gears needed for tires after your lift (4.88's), basically everything you need for your project and at a price that would not push you too far over you budget
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Old January 4th, 2007, 08:09 AM   #6
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Take plenty of Pictures of every angle and label everything. as far as putting a 22r into a 20r truck, very straight forward. If you want to convert to EFI your in for alittle work. the 22RE will bolt in the stock location, but the wiring might be confusing.

get a Haynes Manual at the least or better yet a Factory manual if you can. I have a 91 Factory manual if you need to borrow it. I also have a complete EFI set-up (minus fuel Pump) I'll part with. or you could go Propane, very easy and almost fool proof. I've also got a propane set-up for sale as well.

I may have an 85 Factory manual on the comp, but will have to look. might have disappeared when the HD crashed.

if you run into a problem post up and we will try to assist as nescessary.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 09:14 AM   #7
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Yep, label everything and take pics.

I get out a roll of masking tape and everything I disconnect, I put a big masking tape tag on it and write with a sharpie that won't rub off.

Label however you will know how to put back. When I did my EFI vacuum lines, I numbered them, knowing that #1 was at the front of the plenum and each next number was the next one back.

22R will be pretty much a drop in. The 22R should have a mechanical fuel pump on the engine, I believe, where the 20R might be an in-tank pump?

Since you have an 1983 engine, while its ou, look at the intake manifold/head. Starting in 1983, the flats were cast into the head for the EFI manifold, which has a different pattern. However, early 83 heads did not have the extra 3 holes drilled and tapped. If you have those holes you can always just bolt on an EFI system to the motor later. (if you don't, but have the bosses, you can still drill and tap them later)


Myself, when I've done my swaps, I remove the trans and t-case from under the truck, then pull the engine from the hood. I've seen people pull them all out through the hood, but I've not tried it. My front clip is a little bent, so just getting the engine out was tight.

If you have access to an air ratchet, it helps. Air ratchet, with 30" extension with a wobble end on it(not a swivel) lets you get the top two 17 mm bolts out of the bellhousing really easy. The bolt behind the slave cylinder is a pain, gotta get just the right angle to get it. Likewise, I always hate removing the starter, an air ratchet helps there, too.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
22R will be pretty much a drop in. The 22R should have a mechanical fuel pump on the engine, I believe, where the 20R might be an in-tank pump?
All carb engines will have a mechanical fuel pump ont the timing cover.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 05:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Yep, label everything and take pics.

I get out a roll of masking tape and everything I disconnect, I put a big masking tape tag on it and write with a sharpie that won't rub off.

Label however you will know how to put back. When I did my EFI vacuum lines, I numbered them, knowing that #1 was at the front of the plenum and each next number was the next one back.

22R will be pretty much a drop in. The 22R should have a mechanical fuel pump on the engine, I believe, where the 20R might be an in-tank pump?

Since you have an 1983 engine, while its ou, look at the intake manifold/head. Starting in 1983, the flats were cast into the head for the EFI manifold, which has a different pattern. However, early 83 heads did not have the extra 3 holes drilled and tapped. If you have those holes you can always just bolt on an EFI system to the motor later. (if you don't, but have the bosses, you can still drill and tap them later)


Myself, when I've done my swaps, I remove the trans and t-case from under the truck, then pull the engine from the hood. I've seen people pull them all out through the hood, but I've not tried it. My front clip is a little bent, so just getting the engine out was tight.

If you have access to an air ratchet, it helps. Air ratchet, with 30" extension with a wobble end on it(not a swivel) lets you get the top two 17 mm bolts out of the bellhousing really easy. The bolt behind the slave cylinder is a pain, gotta get just the right angle to get it. Likewise, I always hate removing the starter, an air ratchet helps there, too.

In order to put FI on early 22r's (ones with round exhaust ports) You have to switch heads and use one from a 83 or 84 celica 22re......This will give you both the correct deck height and the correct intake pattern.....I went through all this on mine......there are people that swear you don't have to do this but from my findings (and from the very helpful people at LC Engineering) it is the only way.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 05:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 974x4Taco View Post
In order to put FI on early 22r's (ones with round exhaust ports) You have to switch heads and use one from a 83 or 84 celica 22re......This will give you both the correct deck height and the correct intake pattern.....I went through all this on mine......there are people that swear you don't have to do this but from my findings (and from the very helpful people at LC Engineering) it is the only way.
Nope.

My truck started as an 1983, and the original motor clearly had the bosses for the FI manifold. They weren't drilled and tapped, though.

By late 1983 all were drilled and tapped. There are threads with pics detailing this on PBB.

The deck height doesn't really matter for swapping the manifolds. It did matter when I put the power steering brackets one, but its still a small difference, and it worked with minor grinding.

Now I run an 85 22RE, so its all back to stock.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 06:06 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=nmeinc;365970]I've also got a propane set-up for sale as well.
QUOTE]

I may hit you up for the propane set-up when/if my rebate checks from black friday come back. Or if you still have it, tax time. Till then I'm so strapped I just traded a motorcycle (not running mind you) for a beat ass cherry picker so I can do the swap. My wife was happy though because I am down to one project. Thanks for the advice guys. I will post any questions I have during the swap and will make sure to post once it's all done and she's up and running.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 06:10 PM   #12
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See my truck is an 85.........I blew the 22re up (it went swimming at silverlake).........so i picked up what was suppose to be a 83 22r for cheap under the impression what you are saying was true (and it may very well be true) but when I tried to put the injection onto it it did not even come close to lineing up.....I looked for undrilled bosses and things like you are saying and I could not for the life of me see where there were any.......that is when I called LC Engineering and they were the ones that told me to use the Cellica head. Once i did that everything else bolted right up.....even my AC.

The only thing I can think is my engine is not really an 83.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 06:40 PM   #13
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Now that I think about it the FI setup may be the way I need to go since I plan on driving cross country at some point in the next two years and lord knows how many gas stations have propane fillups between here and the west coast.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #14
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While I'm at it I have another question or several depending on how you look at it. I would like to do several things to my truck but being on a limited budget I have to prioritize and take it slow. So my question is does this sound like it's in the right order or should I rethink my approach.

1. Swap in the 22R and L52 5speed
2. Convert to crossover steering
3. Convert to either fuel injection or propane
4. 3" suspension lift with replacement leaf springs vice lift blocks
5. Better Birfs and big ass tires
6. Roll cage

Thanks,

Bryce
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Old January 4th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #15
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Is the 20R not working well right now?

If it was me, and a mainly wheeling vehicle, then I'd go:

#4 + Tires first

Then #2 when you can afford it

Then Lockers

Then go with the 22R/5 speed/injection.


For me, if the motor is running well, then I'd use it. I'd only swap if its not runnig good. I liked my carb'd 22R, ran strong with a weber 38 & header. I swapped to the 22RE because I threw a rod.

The 4 speed vs 5 speed, well, with 36s, I NEVER use 5th, even with 4.88 gears. If your 4 speed isn't grinding, there won't be any difference between that and the 5 speed, for now.

Crossover steering generally requires a minimum of 3" to clear, and you'll need to be real careful with steering box placement. I have switched to a sky manufacturing billet steering are with less drop than stock to allow more clearance.

Using rear springs up front, and various junkyard leaves out back, 3-5" of suspension lift can be done for ~$300-$400 and have good flex.

Birf's are probably OK with smaller tires until you get a front locker. Then call up Bobby Long.

Cage whenever you can get it in there.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 08:18 PM   #16
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The 20R wont idle right now and it has a crack in an oil passage. I suppose I just wanted to swap the tranny to get the new clutch in there that also came with the truck (yes I have the 22R and the L52) Will the clutch work with the 4 speed? If so I think I will just replace the clutch and swap engines. The tires on there right now are 31x10.5x15 dunlop mud rovers. I keep trying to find some good used tires on ebay but it hasn't been a priority since the tread on the mud rovers is pretty good and the truck isn't even running yet. I would really like to get a set of MT/Rs but my wife isn't keen on the idea of spending $1000 on tires and with my work schedule a second job to support my habit isn't a possibility. What do you recommend for lockers brand wise? Should you lock the rear and then the front? I can't wait til tomorrow when I can clean the hell hole I call a garage and start to tear into the truck. I really should take a nap first though. I don't think 36hrs without sleep and tools should mix.
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Old January 5th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #17
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hey artistic, i don't know if your interested or not but my cousin has a 1986 toyota pickup 4x4 solid axle front and rear 5 speed and a 4cyl engine, I don't know a whole lot about it it was my uncle's and he passed away and she is gonna sell it, the frame is shot, tusted thru behind the cab, cab hood and front fenders look good and the drivetrain seems good, my brother drove it down the gravel road but i told him not to get on it too bad because of the frame. also there is no box, don't know what happened to it??? she wants $350 because that's what her dad paid for it, i have some pics if your interested send me a pm or give me a call 989-992-3472, truck is located just south of gladwin on off m30
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Old January 5th, 2007, 10:42 AM   #18
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Based on that,

I'd get the 22R in there, your choice, really, if you are swapping the engine, then the trans isn't really much more work. The clutch I think works for either, and defiantely always check/change your clutch when you have the engine out.

I'd get it running good, and get a rear lock rite or aussie locker, and just enjoy it on 31s, since they are good. Drive it for a while, before determining what you need to do next. Way too many people on this board are total newbies with 36s and long arms, which is silliness.

So many things need to be done at one (lift + tires + crossover steering, for example), so its tough with a small budget.
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Old January 5th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #19
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Thanks Jesus , I'm cleaning my garage tonight and tomorrow morning and hopefully in the afternoon I can get started pulling the 20R. I think I am going to swap the engine and tranny since it's all there and the new trans has about 70,000 fewer miles than the old one from what I seem to remember. I guess a locker does sound logical as the next step (i'll have to keep my eyes peeled on ebay) Hopefully I can get her running good before too long and get on some mild trail runs so I really can get a feel for the truck.

Sorry 71 I honestly don't have the room or the ability to take on another truck right now for parts or otherwise. As it stands I get harrassed weekly and told that my truck will be towed (from my driveway) for being an eyesore. Hence why I haven't started tearing it down until I get the truck into the garage. I'm pretty sure I have all the parts I need right now but thanks for the offers.

Bryce
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Old January 5th, 2007, 08:28 PM   #20
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A locker is one of those things that makes a night and day difference.
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