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Old January 12th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #21
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to me it's someone who thinks for themselves rather than letting their religion, political party, or any other group tell them what to think.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 12:28 AM   #22
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Freethought
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that beliefs should be formed on the basis of science and logical principles and not be comprised by authority, tradition, or any other dogma. The cognitive application of freethought is known as freethinking, and practitioners of freethought are known as freethinkers.
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I don't see where there is nothing that really relates Political viewpoints to free thinking
Those two words right there instantaneously eliminate ChiefHoohaw as a free-thinker.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 01:09 AM   #23
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Those two words right there instantaneously eliminate ChiefHoohaw as a free-thinker.
:tonka:
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Old January 13th, 2007, 09:08 AM   #24
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As usual, you show your lack of life experience. Everything at your age is so black and white. Mainly because you are so one dimensional. Thinking that 'older generations' are conceding to the masses is a pretty ignorant statement. At least you are consistant.
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I will not apologize to you that my beliefs don't let me believe in the "gray" area. I believe that things are black and white or at least should be and I hope that I never grow out of that as you say I will (or at least in your many other rants about myself hope that I will).
Your reply is odd that you immediately put yourself on the defensive. Haggar is not looking for an apology from you, he is trying to point out what he sees in your arguments - and the lack of understanding (on your behalf) of the other people on this forum.

Drew, not everything has to be a fight.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 11:08 AM   #25
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I will not apologize to you that my beliefs don't let me believe in the "gray" area. I believe that things are black and white or at least should be and I hope that I never grow out of that as you say I will (or at least in your many other rants about myself hope that I will).
That doesn't sound very "free thinking" to me.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 11:11 AM   #26
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I don't usually agree with Drew, but I respect that he tries to think for himself and form his own opinions. The world is full of people that blindly follow and accept what they are told as their own opinions. It is easy to use someone else's thoughts and words and make them your own. Truly independent thought is rare in this world. He is at the stage where he is taking his small amount of actual experience, adding it to his limited education, and trying to make sense out of the world for himself. In many cases he is adding 2 and 2 and getting 7. But, as he gets older, hopefully his thinking, added to actual experience will turn into wisdom at some level. Unfortunately, most people find that thinking for themselves is dangerous to their ability to fit into society and give it up in order to gain acceptance. Hopefully he can gain the ability to think for himself, then know when to say it and how. Independent thought rendered with discretion becomes wisdom. Independent thought continuously repeated becomes insanity.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #27
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Thinking that everything in the world is strickly black or white is limited thinking. There is the gray zone, as he will discover as he gets older. To try to put everything into only two catagories (black or white) is not 100% free thinking, IMHO.

But what do I know, I'm old
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Old January 13th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #28
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I'm definitley a free thinker, in that I draw my own conclusions.

Just because I'm generally conservative doesn't mean that I always agree with or always oppose , libertarians, etc...

For instance:

I don't like the influence the "religious right" appears to have over the republican party. However, I also question the "depth" of that influence, since it really hasn't ever been tested. In fact, I'd offer that, until the democratic party leadership went far-left liberal and then supported abortion, big-time religion has much more in common with the traditional democrat position than the republican one.

I'm pro-choice.

I don't agree with parts of the way the Iraq war is being handled, and question some of the objectives. That doesn't mean "Bush lied, kids died", or any of that other drivel.

I believe the Second Amendment is very clear, and that people need to quit worrying about my (or any other non-criminal's) guns.

I also see Jesus 's point that many of the young "free thinkers" here on GL are pretty typical of "enlightened" college kids. They were around before I went to college, while I went, and after. Rush Limbaugh (not that I agree with everything he says either) has a great term for it - "young heads full of mush". In a nutshell, it's a combination of being young & knowing everything, youthful questioning of and resistance to authority, rejection of the status quo, a big dose of superiority complex (after all, they're in / graduated from college) combined with the influence of ultra-liberal college faculties and a little freedom from mom & pop.

Interesting, it seems to strike most strongly with middle-class kids. Lower class kids are too busy worrying about performing and getting ahead and upper class kids don't give a shit, because they've already got it made.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 02:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Your reply is odd that you immediately put yourself on the defensive. Haggar is not looking for an apology from you, he is trying to point out what he sees in your arguments - and the lack of understanding (on your behalf) of the other people on this forum.

Drew, not everything has to be a fight.
Look at the source of those comments and you will see why I was defensive and I can understand that not everyone is looking for a fight just as I am not looking for a fight.
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Old January 13th, 2007, 03:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
I'm definitley a free thinker, in that I draw my own conclusions.

Just because I'm generally conservative doesn't mean that I always agree with or always oppose , libertarians, etc...

For instance:

I don't like the influence the "religious right" appears to have over the republican party. However, I also question the "depth" of that influence, since it really hasn't ever been tested. In fact, I'd offer that, until the democratic party leadership went far-left liberal and then supported abortion, big-time religion has much more in common with the traditional democrat position than the republican one.

I'm pro-choice.

I don't agree with parts of the way the Iraq war is being handled, and question some of the objectives. That doesn't mean "Bush lied, kids died", or any of that other drivel.

I believe the Second Amendment is very clear, and that people need to quit worrying about my (or any other non-criminal's) guns.

I also see Jesus 's point that many of the young "free thinkers" here on GL are pretty typical of "enlightened" college kids. They were around before I went to college, while I went, and after. Rush Limbaugh (not that I agree with everything he says either) has a great term for it - "young heads full of mush". In a nutshell, it's a combination of being young & knowing everything, youthful questioning of and resistance to authority, rejection of the status quo, a big dose of superiority complex (after all, they're in / graduated from college) combined with the influence of ultra-liberal college faculties and a little freedom from mom & pop.

Interesting, it seems to strike most strongly with middle-class kids. Lower class kids are too busy worrying about performing and getting ahead and upper class kids don't give a shit, because they've already got it made.
Of any of the people that post in the politics forum, I most agree with your thinking. I agree with most all of your thoughts and opinions. I just wish more people in politics were a little more removed from the "young heads full of mush" contingent. The very concept of a political science major scares the shit out of me. The idea that anyone can graduate from college and think they understand politics and know how to run this country should scare ALL of us. There should be a law that states minimum experience requirements for running this country. A few basic economics courses should be required, they should have real world experience working for or owning a business, etc...
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Old January 13th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #31
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“Man’s Mind Stretched to a New Idea, Never Goes. Back to Its Original Dimensions”. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
One of my favorite quotes and the world is never simply black and white, good and evil. To attempt to define it as such shows a real lack of understanding.

Once when I was young, and idealistic I thought that way. Now that I am older I know better. I have learned the hard way that charging at windmills is a fruitless endevor. I have managed to grasp some new ideas and my mind has been stretched by them. By stretching my mind too these new ideas I understand that the world is not black and white, good and evil.

The quicker you come to that realization the better you can understand it and navigate a world that is really a million shades of grey and like a prism it changes as you look at it from different angles.

Here are some more nuggets of wisdom that I have picked up along the way and have served me well.

Quote:
The toe that you step on today is often attached to the ass that you have to kiss tomorrow -unknown
Quote:
Old age and treachery will often beat youth and skill -unknown
Jeff
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Old January 13th, 2007, 10:52 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Am I a free thinker?
That is a question only you can answer.
If I'm the only that can answer that then why does your sig say there are only 2 or 3 free thinkers on this site?
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Old January 13th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #33
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If I'm the only that can answer that then why does your sig say there are only 2 or 3 free thinkers on this site?
Because the 'chief' has not deemed you a free thinker yet. :miff:
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Old January 14th, 2007, 03:13 AM   #34
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Because the 'chief' has not deemed you a free thinker yet. :miff:
If what "chief" does is "free thinking" then I don't want to be considered a "free thinker"
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Old January 14th, 2007, 08:42 AM   #35
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If I'm the only that can answer that then why does your sig say there are only 2 or 3 free thinkers on this site?
Perhaps thats why there's the 'or' in his sig. Its Him, Sova, and possibly you.

Yes, that makes sense now.
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Old January 14th, 2007, 09:11 AM   #36
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An observation.

Parroting liberal dogma = "free thinking"?

Anyone bringing up an opposing viewpoint = "non thinker", "brainwashed", "in denial", "right wing nut job", etc...


Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, or "treated iron cookware", if that's what they prefer.
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Old January 14th, 2007, 09:45 AM   #37
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An observation.

Parroting liberal dogma = "free thinking"?

Anyone bringing up an opposing viewpoint = "non thinker", "brainwashed", "in denial", "right wing nut job", etc...
If I disagreed with you then I'd be in the latter category? (Not that I am, it's a hypothetical question).
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Old January 14th, 2007, 09:47 AM   #38
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Perhaps thats why there's the 'or' in his sig. Its Him, Sova, and possibly you.

Yes, that makes sense now.
So there's hope?
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Old January 14th, 2007, 09:51 AM   #39
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I think the third "Free Thinker" is kinda like the minor leagues, someone can get called up to the Majors from time to time just before the Playoffs
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Old January 14th, 2007, 10:05 AM   #40
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If I disagreed with you then I'd be in the latter category? (Not that I am, it's a hypothetical question).
No.

Just that the self-described "free thinkers" seem to 100% parrot the liberal party line.

While conservative, I'm not 100% or 0% .

I find it unlikely that a "free thinker" (let alone 2 - 3) would have that level of agreement (i.e. 100%) with a group like that.

Sounds to me like the "free thinkers" are just parroting liberal positions and claiming (in a decidedly right-leaning group) to be "free thinkers". I should go to "New England Clapped-out Volvo Wagons.com" and I could be a free thinker too.
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