Opportunity to keep Kids in the Mudd Open - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 7th, 2007, 05:59 PM   #21
VonDirt
Senior Member
 
VonDirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-10-06
Location: west side michigan
Posts: 629
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the kid01 View Post
is it to late to send a letter
what would be the best place to send it

somebody tell me if im wrong but i think the best bet is to fax it to the owner of the park at this point.

DAVE & CAROL (269) 468-7478
VonDirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old January 7th, 2007, 06:17 PM   #22
CheapThrillB2
FAWK YEAH!!
 
CheapThrillB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-06
Location: Middleville, MI
Posts: 31,202
iTrader: (61)
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Default

myself and two others from CheapThrills are going to the meeting in support of KITM....hope to see some of the other GL4x4 members their to
CheapThrillB2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 07:17 PM   #23
nd4spd71
Senior Member
 
nd4spd71's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-27-06
Location: Hastings, MI
Posts: 4,186
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDirt View Post
somebody tell me if im wrong but i think the best bet is to fax it to the owner of the park at this point.

DAVE & CAROL (269) 468-7478
No Von you are CORRECT you can fax it to Dave and he will get it to the township.
nd4spd71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM   #24
VonDirt
Senior Member
 
VonDirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-10-06
Location: west side michigan
Posts: 629
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spd71 View Post
No Von you are CORRECT you can fax it to Dave and he will get it to the township.

thanks, then thats what we'll do
VonDirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 07:58 PM   #25
nd4spd71
Senior Member
 
nd4spd71's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-27-06
Location: Hastings, MI
Posts: 4,186
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDirt View Post
thanks, then thats what we'll do

Thanks Von and others for your support.
nd4spd71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 7th, 2007, 09:29 PM   #26
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapThrillB2 View Post
myself and two others from CheapThrills are going to the meeting in support of KITM....hope to see some of the other GL4x4 members their to
THANKS!
In person support is always the best kind.
I can't make it.
Let us know how it goes.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 07:16 AM   #27
Calvynandhobbs
Senior Member
 
Calvynandhobbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-14-06
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 596
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
myself and two others from CheapThrills are going to the meeting in support of KITM....hope to see some of the other GL4x4 members their to
Glad to see you're going to make it for the meeting. I'll be driving over from Ypsilanti to attend.
Calvynandhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 07:58 AM   #28
FORD FLARESIDE
Someday, yeah Someday
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 21,724
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
I am a little rusty on my township zoning regulations, but I am pretty sure that an off-road business does not fit under Ag-1 zoning restrictions. A special use permit or a rezoning would have to occur to fit the zoning requirements.
This is true............I sit on the Planning Commission for a West Side Township.

You need to get the Special Use Permit. ( I doubt the planning commission would make a recommendation to rezone for you)
I know the tendency is to think that it is "us" against the township, but the Township Board works for the public, and they are supposed to make decisions based on what the local public wants, that is within the law of the land.
It is not that hard to put the fear in the board, you just have to do the leg work, and get the local public behind you.

Last edited by FORD FLARESIDE; January 8th, 2007 at 08:22 AM.
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 09:04 AM   #29
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,943
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

The bad part is that the special use permit wasn't pulled prior to running the business. In this instance, forgiveness is much harder than permission. I hope they are able to persuade the township to approve it though.
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 10:10 AM   #30
Calvynandhobbs
Senior Member
 
Calvynandhobbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-14-06
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 596
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
The bad part is that the special use permit wasn't pulled prior to running the business
I agree. Dave thought he had all of his bases covered before going into business. The DNR, NFS, and lawyers were all brought in and petitions to the neighbors were signed. The lawyers gave him the go ahead and then the township put the halt to him he so applied for the special use permit. What's frustrating is that the special use permit has been applied for since early this past summer and the township has delayed the hearing 3 different times for apparently no reason except for they weren't ready yet. His neighbors charge money from people for hunting on their land as well as snowmobiling in the winter and the neighbors don't have a special use permit. I think the lawyers went off of this precident that was already set.
Calvynandhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #31
VonDirt
Senior Member
 
VonDirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-10-06
Location: west side michigan
Posts: 629
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
The bad part is that the special use permit wasn't pulled prior to running the business. In this instance, forgiveness is much harder than permission. I hope they are able to persuade the township to approve it though.

hmmm - so thats not the best situation. oh well, gotta hope for the best -

do you guys know if their email address on the site is good ? I finished that letter last night about midnight and emailed it to them. hadnt heard back though. im not crazy about fax machines, crummy quality, sometimes its just a notch above using smoke signals - i guess even if i dont hear back, ill just fax it anyway.
VonDirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 10:27 AM   #32
FORD FLARESIDE
Someday, yeah Someday
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 21,724
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvynandhobbs View Post
I agree. Dave thought he had all of his bases covered before going into business. The DNR, NFS, and lawyers were all brought in and petitions to the neighbors were signed. The lawyers gave him the go ahead and then the township put the halt to him he so applied for the special use permit. What's frustrating is that the special use permit has been applied for since early this past summer and the township has delayed the hearing 3 different times for apparently no reason except for they weren't ready yet. His neighbors charge money from people for hunting on their land as well as snowmobiling in the winter and the neighbors don't have a special use permit. I think the lawyers went off of this precident that was already set.
1. The lawyers messed up.........they should have known about the "Special Use Permit"

2. My guess is that the Commission is delaying so that they can get the Township Zoning Ordinance changed before the official public meeting.(whether they are for or against the park)

Last edited by FORD FLARESIDE; January 8th, 2007 at 10:29 AM.
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 10:41 AM   #33
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,943
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

Township governments can be a really big headache to deal with. They are at best part-time with little or no experience. Hopefully they have been delaying for good reason. My experience with a township zoning board was very negative. It's not about what is right, but about what was in it for them and who they knew.

The lawyers definitely should have known about the zoning and special use issues. If the neighbors already signed in support of the business, the township "should" have an easier time with this.
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 10:48 AM   #34
Calvynandhobbs
Senior Member
 
Calvynandhobbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-14-06
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 596
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I don't know much about zoning and how the special use permits work, but I would think the snowmobiles running up and down the roads and using properties on a pay per day play basis would be the same thing as what he is trying to do. I haven't been to a meeting yet because they've all be canceled the day the meetings were to be held so hopefully I'll get more information tomorrow night. The lawyer said he's worked with this township before and what they have done in the past is keep canceling the meetings until the person runs out of money to pay the lawyer and the whole thing gets dropped.
Calvynandhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 11:43 AM   #35
CheapThrillB2
FAWK YEAH!!
 
CheapThrillB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-06
Location: Middleville, MI
Posts: 31,202
iTrader: (61)
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Default

if it is cancelled before we leave at 5 to get there, is their a way to find out so we don't drive the 40+ miles to it and find out
CheapThrillB2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 11:55 AM   #36
FORD FLARESIDE
Someday, yeah Someday
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 21,724
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvynandhobbs View Post
I don't know much about zoning and how the special use permits work, but I would think the snowmobiles running up and down the roads and using properties on a pay per day play basis would be the same thing as what he is trying to do. I haven't been to a meeting yet because they've all be canceled the day the meetings were to be held so hopefully I'll get more information tomorrow night. The lawyer said he's worked with this township before and what they have done in the past is keep canceling the meetings until the person runs out of money to pay the lawyer and the whole thing gets dropped.
The owner/developer can call a "Special Meeting" which the commission will have to show up for. This will cause a meeting before the next scheduled monthly time. Be fore-warned that you will have to pay for the time of all commissioners, township attorney, clerk, etc.....

This however will make them get off from their duffs.
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 11:56 AM   #37
Calvynandhobbs
Senior Member
 
Calvynandhobbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-14-06
Location: Groton, CT
Posts: 596
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
if it is cancelled before we leave at 5 to get there, is their a way to find out so we don't drive the 40+ miles to it and find out
That's a good question. I'm going to give Dave a call and make sure he calls me if anything changes with the meeting. I'll send you a pm with my phone number and you can call me. I have over 120 miles to get there so I would be very disappointed if it gets cancelled and I've driven all the way there.

Roger
Calvynandhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #38
gmcpower98
Geocacher!!!!!!!!!!
 
gmcpower98's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-26-06
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 2,701
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Letter of support

I have e-mailed a letter of support to the "Kids in the Mudd"
and to Jason Harpole addresses.
GOOD LUCK GUYS!!
gmcpower98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2007, 12:54 PM   #39
mooseracing
Stuck like a MoFo
 
mooseracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-12-06
Location: South GR
Posts: 385
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mooseracing
Default

Hopefully some things get rolling with this but i can't beleive that the township is having an issue about the permit. I've dealt with Hamilton, Keeler, Hartford townships boards (they all neighbor eachother) and everytime a business or someone other than just a homeowner accidently doesn't get a permit properly or after an act that requires a permit happens they usually look past it. THis has just been my experience with these townships. I am also betting that some of the farmers must be pushin on the board members too, not that I would be so kind to mention the names.

Anyways i really hope this works out and gets this place open to the public legally.

For any of you that are going and not from the area the easiest way would be to take I-94 to exit 46 Hartford, then head south on CR687(which is right off I-94). Go about 5 miles until you get to Keeler, which is real small town. There is only 2 flashing yellow lights, if headin south on 687 the first one is Territorial North the second is south. So take a left at the first light, follow territorial for around 5 miles or more, can't remem exactly. But you will go past hamilton twnshp cemetary, which should be on your right, then the Twnshp hall is before the S curve right after the cemetary.

Again good luck at the meeting guys
mooseracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2007, 03:45 PM   #40
Workinprogress91
Senior Member
 
Workinprogress91's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-26-06
Location: Kalamazoo, Mi
Posts: 190
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Thanks for the directions, hopefully I'll see some of you guys there.
Workinprogress91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.30551 seconds with 80 queries