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Old December 2nd, 2006, 11:51 PM   #21
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Sadly enough I have to side with Sova and CMUwhatever the fukc his name is.

When it comes down to it Islam is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Its just like christianity, we have our radical christians that want convert people or have a holy war. The problem is that no one looks at anything they see outside of the television and unfortunately its assholes like Phelps and Osama always take the spotlight when the time comes.

The problem is that people like to use the "mob mentality" instead of making decisions for themselves. People who look at the middle east and say "Why not just kill all of them and be done with it" are honestly the worst people to speak up. Shit, we have a president that talks like that and look at where he got us: Korea hates us because he didn't want keep talks up, Iraq turned into a shitstorm because he decided to pick up daddy's vendetta instead of leaving things alone and Afgahnistan... well we kinda left the UN to clean that one up for us, but we think they're too weak so we wanted to leave at one point. People need to etiher STFU or be in it for the long haul because our trend of half-blowing the fukc out of things and then they retaliate is getting old. People blame this shit on the president and while I do think part of it is his fault, I can't say its all to blame. In part he's embodying the attitude of the american people,right down to his newest attitude after the election.

Our policy for the longest time is "if it ain't american its wrong, let go kill it", but in the last 10 years there has been a shift in mindset where people are more tolerant of others ideals. They've also become for the simplest explanation ADD, which for us as a society is dangerous too. We've become a society that thinks if it takes longer for us to do than it takes to nuke a bag of popcorn it takes to long. And with the people that are attacking us in Iraq that's something they can use to their advantage. They've probably waited till now to cause all of this violence to make it appear worse to the american people and make us pull out. Which BTW helps perpetuate the stigma that muslims are bad and need to be profiled, just like the Jews.

It actually be interesting to see the differences between how the jews were treated before the holocaust and how muslims are treated now. I bet it would be directly comparable to the time before the jews got numbered and required to wear a star of david on their chest.

I'm just glad that congress changed hands otherwise we'd probably have tanks already parked on the Iran border, and my fat ass would probably be getting drafted here in the near future.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 12:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ckupq View Post
Sadly enough I have to side with Sova and CMUwhatever the fukc his name is.

When it comes down to it Islam is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Its just like christianity, we have our radical christians that want convert people or have a holy war. The problem is that no one looks at anything they see outside of the television and unfortunately its assholes like Phelps and Osama always take the spotlight when the time comes.

The problem is that people like to use the "mob mentality" instead of making decisions for themselves. People who look at the middle east and say "Why not just kill all of them and be done with it" are honestly the worst people to speak up. Shit, we have a president that talks like that and look at where he got us: Korea hates us because he didn't want keep talks up, Iraq turned into a shitstorm because he decided to pick up daddy's vendetta instead of leaving things alone and Afgahnistan... well we kinda left the UN to clean that one up for us, but we think they're too weak so we wanted to leave at one point. People need to etiher STFU or be in it for the long haul because our trend of half-blowing the fukc out of things and then they retaliate is getting old. People blame this shit on the president and while I do think part of it is his fault, I can't say its all to blame. In part he's embodying the attitude of the american people,right down to his newest attitude after the election.

Our policy for the longest time is "if it ain't american its wrong, let go kill it", but in the last 10 years there has been a shift in mindset where people are more tolerant of others ideals. They've also become for the simplest explanation ADD, which for us as a society is dangerous too. We've become a society that thinks if it takes longer for us to do than it takes to nuke a bag of popcorn it takes to long. And with the people that are attacking us in Iraq that's something they can use to their advantage. They've probably waited till now to cause all of this violence to make it appear worse to the american people and make us pull out. Which BTW helps perpetuate the stigma that muslims are bad and need to be profiled, just like the Jews.

It actually be interesting to see the differences between how the jews were treated before the holocaust and how muslims are treated now. I bet it would be directly comparable to the time before the jews got numbered and required to wear a star of david on their chest.

I'm just glad that congress changed hands otherwise we'd probably have tanks already parked on the Iran border, and my fat ass would probably be getting drafted here in the near future.
Well said, you have my respect
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 12:18 AM   #23
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When I get debating on these sites I tend to consider everyones view point and value everyone opinion. In doing so theres one important thing I sometimes loose sight of.

Thank you for reminding me that some people like you are just flaming idiots.
That's okay. Just make sure you tell me that I was right just incase I am right, Okay?
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 01:30 AM   #24
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That's okay. Just make sure you tell me that I was right just incase I am right, Okay?
When I'm wrong I'm the first to admit it. I have no fear of that happening in this case.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 01:44 AM   #25
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Sadly enough I have to side with Sova and CMUwhatever the fukc his name is.

When it comes down to it Islam is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Its just like christianity, we have our radical christians that want convert people or have a holy war. The problem is that no one looks at anything they see outside of the television and unfortunately its assholes like Phelps and Osama always take the spotlight when the time comes.

The problem is that people like to use the "mob mentality" instead of making decisions for themselves. People who look at the middle east and say "Why not just kill all of them and be done with it" are honestly the worst people to speak up. Shit, we have a president that talks like that and look at where he got us: Korea hates us because he didn't want keep talks up, Iraq turned into a shitstorm because he decided to pick up daddy's vendetta instead of leaving things alone and Afgahnistan... well we kinda left the UN to clean that one up for us, but we think they're too weak so we wanted to leave at one point. People need to etiher STFU or be in it for the long haul because our trend of half-blowing the fukc out of things and then they retaliate is getting old. People blame this shit on the president and while I do think part of it is his fault, I can't say its all to blame. In part he's embodying the attitude of the american people,right down to his newest attitude after the election.

Our policy for the longest time is "if it ain't american its wrong, let go kill it", but in the last 10 years there has been a shift in mindset where people are more tolerant of others ideals. They've also become for the simplest explanation ADD, which for us as a society is dangerous too. We've become a society that thinks if it takes longer for us to do than it takes to nuke a bag of popcorn it takes to long. And with the people that are attacking us in Iraq that's something they can use to their advantage. They've probably waited till now to cause all of this violence to make it appear worse to the american people and make us pull out. Which BTW helps perpetuate the stigma that muslims are bad and need to be profiled, just like the Jews.

It actually be interesting to see the differences between how the jews were treated before the holocaust and how muslims are treated now. I bet it would be directly comparable to the time before the jews got numbered and required to wear a star of david on their chest.

I'm just glad that congress changed hands otherwise we'd probably have tanks already parked on the Iran border, and my fat ass would probably be getting drafted here in the near future.
yep.

To many people follow the "mod mentality" rather than think for themselves.
To many people don't understand that just because some radicals think it's OK to kill someone in the name of thier "god" it doesn't mean that everyone of that faith believe that same thing.
To many people think that if you can save the world in a 2 hour movie that it should work that fast in real life.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 10:02 AM   #26
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Here's my take on the "Islamic Situation".

Why won't the heads of Islam denounce the violence being done in Islam's name? THAT would be a simple gesure that would go a ways toward encouraging tolerance. Their refusal to denounce the violence and those doing it amounts to an endorsement of it.

Why won't they?

Because, in a nutshell, they want to encourage the violence to continue, or at best, want to continue to profit from it.

For many poweful Muslims, the preferred model of civilization is the Dark Ages, where people live lives of servitude to the church, and fear the wrath of the local clergyman (who now becomes more powerful, espcially if Sharia law overtakes government-imposed law).

Even more disturbing is a sect of Islam, "The Twelvers" who live predominanly in Iran and beleive that a cataclysmic confrontation of good and evil must take place to herald the arrival of the Mahdi, the Islamic divine savior. In fact, some portions of Islam believe he and Jesus will arrive together. It's disturbing because the president of Iran (Ahmadinejad) is 1) a member of this sect 2) beleive that he is "good" and the west is "evil", 3) is working to acquire nuclear capability, and 4) had himself and his cabinet sign a contract pledging themselves to bringing about the return of the Mahdi. Basically, in his world, nuclear war is a no-lose scenario since, regardless of outcome, it results in the return of the savior.

Then there's the issue of "tolerance". That is a western concept that is lost on mainstream (i.e. non-westernized, tolerant) Islam, along with the separation of church and state. While Muslims living in the west can and do show tolerance, that's because they live in a western society and have adopted western values (that whole evil American "melting pot" thing). Take a look at what's happening in Europe - large numbers of Muslims imposing their will on a non-Muslim society - with violent results if resisted.

Does that mean another Holocuast is coming? Unlikely. Howevwe if it were to happen, I'd offer we (western non-Muslims) will be playing the role of the Jews.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 11:15 AM   #27
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Once again I agree with Duffman.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 01:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Here's my take on the "Islamic Situation".

Why won't the heads of Islam denounce the violence being done in Islam's name? THAT would be a simple gesure that would go a ways toward encouraging tolerance. Their refusal to denounce the violence and those doing it amounts to an endorsement of it.

Why won't they?

Because, in a nutshell, they want to encourage the violence to continue, or at best, want to continue to profit from it.

For many poweful Muslims, the preferred model of civilization is the Dark Ages, where people live lives of servitude to the church, and fear the wrath of the local clergyman (who now becomes more powerful, espcially if Sharia law overtakes government-imposed law).

Even more disturbing is a sect of Islam, "The Twelvers" who live predominanly in Iran and beleive that a cataclysmic confrontation of good and evil must take place to herald the arrival of the Mahdi, the Islamic divine savior. In fact, some portions of Islam believe he and Jesus will arrive together. It's disturbing because the president of Iran (Ahmadinejad) is 1) a member of this sect 2) beleive that he is "good" and the west is "evil", 3) is working to acquire nuclear capability, and 4) had himself and his cabinet sign a contract pledging themselves to bringing about the return of the Mahdi. Basically, in his world, nuclear war is a no-lose scenario since, regardless of outcome, it results in the return of the savior.

Then there's the issue of "tolerance". That is a western concept that is lost on mainstream (i.e. non-westernized, tolerant) Islam, along with the separation of church and state. While Muslims living in the west can and do show tolerance, that's because they live in a western society and have adopted western values (that whole evil American "melting pot" thing). Take a look at what's happening in Europe - large numbers of Muslims imposing their will on a non-Muslim society - with violent results if resisted.

Does that mean another Holocuast is coming? Unlikely. Howevwe if it were to happen, I'd offer we (western non-Muslims) will be playing the role of the Jews.
x2 + duffman for president = awesomeness !

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ok, let's get this straight brewmenn, that was a handful of people, there is no, "we" and "them". You can't generalize the whole population based on the actions of a few. When can we get past that?
us= christians of all races, and americans of all religions as a whole are not waging a religious war with the rest of the world who does not share our faith.

them= radical muslims. To make it worse those that share the same faith in name are not good enough, the radical muslims want to slaughter their peaceful "muslim brothers". Thats not good enough to worship allah, you need to kill without prejugdice.

You cant possibly be this nieve and radical on everyhting sova. I know if anything you have to have read it here on GL, that not all muslims are the same either. You want to make it racial or national conflict. The world as a whole and the great peaceful relgions are not battling. Its a radical offshoot of peaceful islam that everyone wants to slaughter. The "world", the "west" etc doesnt care that they are dark skined north afircans, desert dwelling arabs, indonesian asians. Its the radical part everyone wants to eliminate. Has zero to do with race or religon.

How is it that anytime race or sex comes into any discussion with liberals like your self what little common sense you have goes out the window and it becomes an american hating rant about "americans are so dumb and nieve they want to kill everyone with brown skin" crap.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 01:42 PM   #29
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You shouldn't, but most people do. When someone does something "in the name of our God" it reflects badly on everyone who worships that "god". It doesn't matter if its Allah, Yahweh, or Jesus. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just reality.
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well let's set a good example and not think that way...maybe it will spread.
sova sova sova. The american military infastructure is not all the profits from war. The higher ups do not want peace. Are you a beliver that say for example yassar affarfat REALLY wanted a homeland and peace for the palestinians, or that he was a BILLIONAIRE, yes thats right he was a billionaire from his "work" keeping the conflict going. Do you think Jesse Jackson wants harmony between the races. Well get a clue your hippie pipe dream doesnt play well here in the US, and they would laugh your lame ass out of the middle east. Maybe good dreams, baby unicorns, sugar gumb drops and hugs and kisses fix everything in your world. The conflict in the middle east is not from nor can it be "fixed" by us setting a good example that spread. We ALL READY ARE SETTING A GOOD EXAMPLE. We are soooo sooo sooo much more tolernat than any arab or any middleast nation. We put up with crap that would get you in jail or deported there. What more do you want us to do to set a "good example". I should just convert to islam.

Very telling that WE (the west and any non radical muslim nation or peoples) are the ones that need to set an example ..... then sit back and get lit up and torched, bombed, and burned for what ??? 200 hundred more years, AND HOPE our dreamy good example catches on.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:21 PM   #30
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x2 + duffman for president = awesomeness !



us= christians of all races, and americans of all religions as a whole are not waging a religious war with the rest of the world who does not share our faith.

them= radical muslims. To make it worse those that share the same faith in name are not good enough, the radical muslims want to slaughter their peaceful "muslim brothers". Thats not good enough to worship allah, you need to kill without prejugdice.

You cant possibly be this nieve and radical on everyhting sova. I know if anything you have to have read it here on GL, that not all muslims are the same either. You want to make it racial or national conflict. The world as a whole and the great peaceful relgions are not battling. Its a radical offshoot of peaceful islam that everyone wants to slaughter. The "world", the "west" etc doesnt care that they are dark skined north afircans, desert dwelling arabs, indonesian asians. Its the radical part everyone wants to eliminate. Has zero to do with race or religon.

How is it that anytime race or sex comes into any discussion with liberals like your self what little common sense you have goes out the window and it becomes an american hating rant about "americans are so dumb and nieve they want to kill everyone with brown skin" crap.
That's the thing Jamie, the definition of "them" isn't the same to everyone. I can understand the "radical muslims who are hell-bent for destruction" definition, but like the people who were calling in, they wanted to tattoo or mark any muslim, not just radicals. That is the problem. Yes, i'm not a fan of radical muslims who want to kill people. Just remember, 99% of terrorists are muslim...but 99% of muslims are not terrorists.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:29 PM   #31
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That's the thing Jamie, the definition of "them" isn't the same to everyone. I can understand the "radical muslims who are hell-bent for destruction" definition, but like the people who were calling in, they wanted to tattoo or mark any muslim, not just radicals. That is the problem. Yes, i'm not a fan of radical muslims who want to kill people. Just remember, 99% of terrorists are muslim...but 99% of muslims are not terrorists.
I have muslim indian neigbors, many of my dads friends are indian programers from his work, and cause of where i grew up many of my friends dad were arab doctors, and engineers. I know LOTS of arabs, and far east muslims. Great people. the muslim thing .... there is a significant correlation between being a terrorist and being muslim. Most muslims are peaceful though. i know that.

well i could never get behind the tatoeing of americans of any race religions etc. Thats crazyness. I think people said that in anger and know it wouldnt work very well. Even if a guy has a tatoo it cant stop him from being a suicide bomber one bit. Its far to easy to kill if you want to. I have no doubt 1/2 this board is capable of going out and killing 50 people in a few days if they really wanted to. No tatoo can stop that. It was just anger at the hole movement. It could NEVER be incorporated in todays PC world anyways. I mean there is serious debate and mulitiple court dates for obvious muslim stuff like the burka drivers license, and whether private business HAVE to accomadate muslim woman RIGHT! to working out with out men near by. With those attitudes so prevalent i dotn see tattoos becoming reality.

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Old December 3rd, 2006, 02:51 PM   #32
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Most muslims are peaceful though. i know that.
Bingo. And people who don't realize this are....Ignorant.

yes, the tattooing thing is rediculous, that was the point, but...people agreed with it! That is the sad part.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 04:00 PM   #33
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The Koran is supposed to preach peace. Could it be that some Muslims interpret from the Koran what they want to believe? Good thing nobody from the Christion faith does that. I think its the whole "virgin" thing that makes Muslim men do stupid shit. If the prize for Martyrdom was 77 fat chicks with sloppy pussies I'm sure there would be far less terrorism.

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Old December 3rd, 2006, 04:05 PM   #34
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Bingo. And people who don't realize this are....Ignorant.

yes, the tattooing thing is rediculous, that was the point, but...people agreed with it! That is the sad part.
Extremists exist in all corners, and extremists are always ridiculous.

Whether it's some talk show host saying outrageous things (to attract attention/ratings) or some yahoo agreeing with them or extremist nutjobs who:

- attack the Pledge of Allegiance
- bomb women's health (abortion) clinics
- hijack airliners
- riot over cartoons
- murder authors who write critically of a religiion
- And a host of other actions.

And while moderate, well-behaved and civilized Muslims are the majority in western countries, it's less the case in the middle east. In most of the middle east, there is a huge gap between poor and rich, with little middle class. Like the poor and disaffected everywhere, these folks are easy pickings for the radical elements of Islam. They want to blame somebody for their predicament, and Israel (and their backers, the english-speaking west) are the scapegoat of choice - easily compounded by the deeply-held Muslim anger over the Crusades (which, curiously predate the U.S. by hundreds of years).
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