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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:07 PM   #21
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Maybe it's because, based on your link, there's 101 countries, including most of that would be considered the "civilized" world where you are less likely to be a victim of homicide, many of which have much more strict gun control policies.
But it's proven not to work in the 96 above it multiple time over.
Iceland ranks 194 of 198 yet has the 15th highest rate of gun ownership in the world. Switzerland ranks 186 out of 198 and issues it's citizens guns. That's why I don't get the argument.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:32 PM   #22
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TJJEEP's avatar is Gary Busey. Drew and Mike called him for an interview one time, and Mike asked him something. Busey said "I don't understand your verb". It was fucking hilarious.

iPhone tap talk can't make out a lot of them.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:33 PM   #23
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But it's proven not to work in the 96 above it multiple time over.
Iceland ranks 194 of 198 yet has the 15th highest rate of gun ownership in the world. Switzerland ranks 186 out of 198 and issues it's citizens guns. That's why I don't get the argument.
You don't get it because there is nothing to get. Using gun control as a perfect example of of the difference from now to 40 years ago, we as kids were allowed to play cops and robbers, make rubber band guns in school, pretend to shoot each other, and there was no talk of "terrible" guns, but lo and behold, there was a lower crime rate and less hate crimes on the streets. In the same fashion, we got to have winners and losers in sports and at school, and boys got in fights on the playground and went home as friends. It was all part of the pecking order.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:46 PM   #24
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But it's proven not to work in the 96 above it multiple time over.
Iceland ranks 194 of 198 yet has the 15th highest rate of gun ownership in the world. Switzerland ranks 186 out of 198 and issues it's citizens guns. That's why I don't get the argument.
How many of that 98 tried? How many in the 101 below us have more strict gun laws? For every country with lots of guns and lower homicide rates I can cite an example of one with few guns and lower homicide rates. (Japan, Singapore)

It's the old story of "figures don't lie, but liars can figure", and people on both sides will fall for it.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:03 PM   #25
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You don't get it because there is nothing to get. Using gun control as a perfect example of of the difference from now to 40 years ago, we as kids were allowed to play cops and robbers, make rubber band guns in school, pretend to shoot each other, and there was no talk of "terrible" guns, but lo and behold, there was a lower crime rate and less hate crimes on the streets. In the same fashion, we got to have winners and losers in sports and at school, and boys got in fights on the playground and went home as friends. It was all part of the pecking order.
By most measures crime rate 40 years ago where higher than today.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:15 PM   #26
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But back to the original topic, Yes, I think things are much more polarized now than in years past. I think there are many things that have combined to cause this.

The people in control of the media realized that a charismatic person with a strong "principled" opinion will draw a bigger audience than a moderate calmly discussing the issues.

The overall trend of our society lately is to be "extreme", that will naturally carry over into politics.

The 2 party system lends itself to polarization.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 07:22 PM   #27
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By most measures crime rate 40 years ago where higher than today.
Violent murder?
Mass killings?
Unprovoked attacks? (knockout game)
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 07:57 PM   #28
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Gun free zones are the most dangerous places to be. That's were the victims are.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 11:45 PM   #29
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Violent murder?
Mass killings?
Unprovoked attacks? (knockout game)
United States Crime Index Rates Per 100,000 Inhabitants

Year..................1972........................ ..2012
Population......208,230,000 ...............313,914,040
Total...................3,961.4................... ....3,246.1
Violent...................401.0................... .......386.9
Property..............3,560.4..................... ...2,859.2
Murder......................9.0................... ...........4.7
Forcible Rape............22.5............................26 .9
Robbery.................180.7..................... ......112.9
Aggravated assault..188.8...........................242.3
Burglary...............1,140.8.................... .......670.2
Larceny Theft.......1,993.6........................1,959.3
Vehicle Theft...........426.1..........................229 .7

source: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Every one of these stats was on the rise 40 years ago, peaked in the 1980's or '90's, and have mostly been falling since. Some are less than half what they were at their peak.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 05:14 AM   #30
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Yesterdays liberal, think Kennedy was just that, yesterday. Todays Democrats are a whole new breed of deceitful persons willing to do and say anything to win. That includes raising the dead to get votes.
Heres one of those polarizing individuals who is so jaded by his own views that he cant smell the stink on his side of the aisle.

Aber, stop and ask yourself why both sides gravitate to the middle during election cycles, in general.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 06:25 AM   #31
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Interesting stats Bruce.....thanks.
Now, if gun ownership is bad, why with the rise of gun purchases has the crime rate fallen?

And I agree with Opie, there we have have Aber calling the dems names.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #32
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Interesting stats Bruce.....thanks.
Now, if gun ownership is bad, why with the rise of gun purchases has the crime rate fallen?

You might have wanted to look up the statistic on that first. I thought the same thing last night, but gun ownership has actually fallen. I could not find a single survey that showed a rise correlating with the decline in crime.

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Old April 24th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #33
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Heres one of those polarizing individuals who is so jaded by his own views that he cant smell the stink on his side of the aisle.

Aber, stop and ask yourself why both sides gravitate to the middle during election cycles, in general.


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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Interesting stats Bruce.....thanks.
Now, if gun ownership is bad, why with the rise of gun purchases has the crime rate fallen?

And I agree with Opie, there we have have Aber calling the dems names.
I am not placing blame on any one party, just saying that at one time both parties could get together and come to an agreement. Today's parties are very devisive and go to extremes at slandering to get the vote.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 06:55 AM   #34
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You might have wanted to look up the statistic on that first. I thought the same thing last night, but gun ownership has actually fallen. I could not find a single survey that showed a rise correlating with the decline in crime.
Looks like I was wrong.

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I am not placing blame on any one party, just saying that at one time both parties could get together and come to an agreement. Today's parties are very devisive and go to extremes at slandering to get the vote.
You made a post calling the dems deceitful but say nothing about anyone else.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 07:03 AM   #35
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Old April 24th, 2014, 07:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
But back to the original topic, Yes, I think things are much more polarized now than in years past. I think there are many things that have combined to cause this.

The people in control of the media realized that a charismatic person with a strong "principled" opinion will draw a bigger audience than a moderate calmly discussing the issues.

The overall trend of our society lately is to be "extreme", that will naturally carry over into politics.

The 2 party system lends itself to polarization.
This.

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Originally Posted by opie View Post
Heres one of those polarizing individuals who is so jaded by his own views that he cant smell the stink on his side of the aisle.

Aber, stop and ask yourself why both sides gravitate to the middle during election cycles, in general.
This. Both sides act like it is only the other side distorting the truth. That makes compromise impossible because if the other side is lying then you can dismiss everything they say or do.


The other problem today is the "anyone who doesn't agree with us is against us mentality". This intolerance does not allow for different opinions. See how this thread got derailed because someone was not allowed to have an opinion without it being challenged. Never mind that it was an example and not the subject of the thread, people just could not let it go. How can there ever be compromise when people are not allowed to have different opinions??
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Old April 24th, 2014, 09:21 AM   #37
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This.

This. Both sides act like it is only the other side distorting the truth. That makes compromise impossible because if the other side is lying then you can dismiss everything they say or do.


The other problem today is the "anyone who doesn't agree with us is against us mentality". This intolerance does not allow for different opinions. See how this thread got derailed because someone was not allowed to have an opinion without it being challenged. Never mind that it was an example and not the subject of the thread, people just could not let it go. How can there ever be compromise when people are not allowed to have different opinions??
There's no problem with different opinions. But when those opinions are based on incorrect or suspect information I see no problem with challenging that information.

I do find it ironic that some people sound like their saying "Yes, we're way to polarized, and it's (the other side)'s fault.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 10:11 AM   #38
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No fucking way. It is not the governments business what guns I own. The constitution does not specify anything about type/ quantity or passing an exam. It says I can have weapons to defend myself. I'm not a fan of a full auto ban but I understand it and can live with it. Same with handgun registration. That is where I believe it should stop. If you read what I actually just said, I have already given concessions, and that is where it should stay.

If I am a felon and posses a weapon, I am breaking the law. Don't add more laws to the law abiding citizen.
Don't turn this into a gun control argument, it was an example. You're proving my point well though.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 10:14 AM   #39
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The other problem today is the "anyone who doesn't agree with us is against us mentality". This intolerance does not allow for different opinions. See how this thread got derailed because someone was not allowed to have an opinion without it being challenged. Never mind that it was an example and not the subject of the thread, people just could not let it go. How can there ever be compromise when people are not allowed to have different opinions??
Shit, it wasn't even my opinion, in the original thread or this one, just an example of why things have gotten so polarized.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #40
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There's no problem with different opinions. But when those opinions are based on incorrect or suspect information I see no problem with challenging that information.

I do find it ironic that some people sound like their saying "Yes, we're way to polarized, and it's (the other side)'s fault.
No you are wrong. You have not supported your opinion with facts. And your facts are wrong anyway ‘cause my favorite talking head says so.

There is a difference between supplying factual information and challenging an opinion. Seriously, look at this thread. While you may not have a problem with others’ opinions there are many who do. As you know better than most, most opinions are based on at least some misinformation while way too many opinions are based mostly on hearsay.

Dickstand posted an example and was immediately jumped on. I do not see where he provided incorrect facts or where “correct” information would add to the topic of the thread. He voiced an opinion as an example, which needed no reply. People could not help but take the bait. Why? Why could they not just ignore his example and stay on topic?

We’ve become so super sensitive to hot topics (guns, gay rights, etc) that any comment on those subjects, in any context, is an excuse to rant and push your own opinions on others. Again it is an intolerance of others right to have an opinion, even if they are “wrong”. What would you prefer to call it if “intolerance” doesn’t suit you?
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