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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:14 PM   #141
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I just find it a bit obtuse to believe that Harry Reid is smart enough to begin this land grab back in the late 80s so he can put china solar on it in 2020.
I get what you are saying but they were ready to do this multiple times and backed out. Including last year, I think the issue was forced this time and I don't see what any of the Bundy's have done any different to make it go this far that they weren't doing before. Someone and something is behind it finally coming to blows.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #142
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OBTUSE?!?!?!
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:22 PM   #143
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OBTUSE?!?!?!
srry nex tim i try 2 du betr
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:28 PM   #144
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srry nex tim i try 2 du betr
You did great,-- That's just the first thing that came to mind when I read your post!
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:36 PM   #145
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I get what you are saying but they were ready to do this multiple times and backed out. Including last year, I think the issue was forced this time and I don't see what any of the Bundy's have done any different to make it go this far that they weren't doing before. Someone and something is behind it finally coming to blows.
Yep, its definitely possible that they ran across the situation and found a way to exploit it for their gain. I find it interesting to see what pans out here. It seems to be a basic question of which government entity has the rights to say what goes on with the land.

Has there been any statement from the Nevada state legislature about this? Where do they stand on this?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:36 PM   #146
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OBTUSE?!?!?!


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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:42 PM   #147
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Yep, its definitely possible that they ran across the situation and found a way to exploit it for their gain. I find it interesting to see what pans out here. It seems to be a basic question of which government entity has the rights to say what goes on with the land.

Has there been any statement from the Nevada state legislature about this? Where do they stand on this?
When Cliven tried to pay the state they refused to take payment. I can't say they said it wasn't their land or didn't say. However, I think it's a logical conclusion to say they implied they don't control said lands.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:47 PM   #148
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When Cliven tried to pay the state they refused to take payment. I can't say they said it wasn't their land or didn't say. However, I think it's a logical conclusion to say they implied they don't control said lands.
so if the state of NV doesn't control the lands, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the federal government would have the right to say what goes on on these public lands?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to understand the situation.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:50 PM   #149
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Has there been any statement from the Nevada state legislature about this? Where do they stand on this?


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...-cliven-bundy/
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Old April 14th, 2014, 06:56 PM   #150
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so if the state of NV doesn't control the lands, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the federal government would have the right to say what goes on on these public lands?

I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to understand the situation.
That's what the family is upset about. They feel they have the right to use the land and that it's state land not Federal. Cliven called for the sheriff to disarm the BLM rangers and bring their weapons back to be buried, he said the toll booths at lake mead should be taken down and land that is supported through tax dollars should be free to be used by the people. He didn't make it about his cattle he made it about our land. He continually used "we the people".

Everyone thinks the family is wanting it for grazing. That is in part true, their main goal is to let the government know that the public owns that land as we own the gov.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:02 PM   #151
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What does concern me is the concept of a 'First Amendment Area'.

I was taught that the entire area between Mexico and Canada is a First Amendment Area, and no one has the power to say otherwise.
This worries me also.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:04 PM   #152
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:07 PM   #153
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That's what the family is upset about. They feel they have the right to use the land and that it's state land not Federal. Cliven called for the sheriff to disarm the BLM rangers and bring their weapons back to be buried, he said the toll booths at lake mead should be taken down and land that is supported through tax dollars should be free to be used by the people. He didn't make it about his cattle he made it about our land. He continually used "we the people".

Everyone thinks the family is wanting it for grazing. That is in part true, their main goal is to let the government know that the public owns that land as we own the gov.
So you think the federal government should not control any land, and that "we the people" should be allowed to do whatever we want on land currently controlled by the federal government? I think I'll go built my own cabin in a national forest.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:15 PM   #154
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So you think the federal government should not control any land, and that "we the people" should be allowed to do whatever we want on land currently controlled by the federal government? I think I'll go built my own cabin in a national forest.
Yeah that's what I said. When you run out of facts and logical theories you can always go bonkers and show how uneducated you are on the topic.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:19 PM   #155
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Yeah that's what I said. When you run out of facts and logical theories you can always go bonkers and show how uneducated you are on the topic.
I went bonkers long ago. Now I'm trying to understand other peoples insanity.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #156
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I don't think it's very insane to think the Feds shouldn't be allowed to do as they wish with land the public owns unless it's in the best interest for the majority of the people who show interest in said land. Personal profit from federal lands by elected officials and their families is bullshit.

I also think that when you pay for land through taxes you should not be taxed or levied a fee to use the land. Just as
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Old April 14th, 2014, 08:46 PM   #157
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I think it's the right and responsibility for the government to manage all lands under their control for the greatest long term benefit of society. I don't think I would challenge the greenies to "show interest" in a certain piece of land, especially when some "endangered" wildlife is involved.

I agree that " Personal profit from federal lands by elected officials and their families is bullshit." all of my research has shown that Reid is not involved in this in any significant way. I have not found any verifiable claims that anyone else is profiting from this. The only person that is using federal lands for his personal profit is Cliven Bundy.

I do not have a problem paying for usage of public lands. I understand that nearly any usage of land will lead to costs to whoever manages the land over and above what it would cost to maintain unused land. I will willing pay for my usage, and would expect other to pay for their usage.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:15 PM   #158
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From the other link:
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In 1934, Congress enacted the Taylor Grazing Act, giving the federal government the authority to regulate grazing on the public lands in an effort to improve rangeland conditions.

Twelve years later, the General Land Office and Grazing Service were combined to form the Bureau of Land Management, which has been given the authority to regulate public lands, including nearly 600,000 acres in Gold Butte.
This is from link that Brewmann posted... There is an interesting line here that makes me ask... If the Taylor Grazing act is supposed to improve Federal grazing lands, what have they done to improve the property, or more for.. what are they planning to do to improve the property in question.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #159
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I think it's the right and responsibility for the government to manage all lands under their control for the greatest long term benefit of society. I don't think I would challenge the greenies to "show interest" in a certain piece of land, especially when some "endangered" wildlife is involved.

I agree that " Personal profit from federal lands by elected officials and their families is bullshit." all of my research has shown that Reid is not involved in this in any significant way. I have not found any verifiable claims that anyone else is profiting from this. The only person that is using federal lands for his personal profit is Cliven Bundy.

I do not have a problem paying for usage of public lands. I understand that nearly any usage of land will lead to costs to whoever manages the land over and above what it would cost to maintain unused land. I will willing pay for my usage, and would expect other to pay for their usage.
So you honestly think this is about removing cattle do to unpaid and refusal to pay grazing fees? You truly think after this is all said and done if Cliven and his family leave that land that in 5-10 years nothing will be done with the land?

Water rights, fracking, buffer zone for solar energy, and much more are great possibilities and one of those is the true driving force. The 100's of thousands of dollars spent so far isn't simply because a few cattle are on our land. It's much deeper than that. You can bet your ass this is money driven.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #160
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It's always money driven.

And if there is a way to produce energy from that land, that is fine too. The US has done far worse to Nevada.

I would just like to know why the government feels a need to restrict speech in the area.
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