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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:47 AM   #81
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So how should it be handled? This guy has been illegally using public land for 20 years, and has ignored several court orders to remove his cattle and pay the fees for grazing. He has stated that he has no intention of obeying federal laws.

Maybe the timing is bad, maybe it should happen at whatever time of the year cattle round ups typically take place. But I do support the idea that the owner/manager of a property has the right to confiscate and dispose off things left on their property illegally.
So in theory if the .gov says tomorrow that you can no longer keep fish at any location that you usually fish and feed your family from, that's ok?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 09:47 AM   #82
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Putin invades Chrimea.
Obama not wanting to be out done, invades Nevada.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 10:04 AM   #83
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So in theory if the .gov says tomorrow that you can no longer keep fish at any location that you usually fish and feed your family from, that's ok?
wat?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 10:13 AM   #84
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wat?
Too abstract?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 10:27 AM   #85
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Too abstract?
Little bit.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 10:30 AM   #86
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So in theory if the .gov says tomorrow that you can no longer keep fish at any location that you usually fish and feed your family from, that's ok?
if it is federally controlled land, then yes. Even more so if the federal government has been trying to get you to no longer fish there for 20 years. I think that's enough time to find a new fishing hole.

That seems to be the issue at the heart of this matter - did Nevada release control of this land to the Feds, as Ronald Reagan made possible by the law he enacted 20 years ago to let this happen? I have no idea.

It seems to me that the moral to this story is 'as long as I refuse to recognize the federal government, I will just ignore any laws and rulings that are made against me.'
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Old April 14th, 2014, 10:34 AM   #87
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if it is federally controlled land, then yes. Even more so if the federal government has been trying to get you to no longer fish there for 20 years. I think that's enough time to find a new fishing hole.

That seems to be the issue at the heart of this matter - did Nevada release control of this land to the Feds, as Ronald Reagan made possible by the law he enacted 20 years ago to let this happen? I have no idea.

It seems to me that the moral to this story is 'as long as I refuse to recognize the federal government, I will just ignore any laws and rulings that are made against me.'
So 20 yrs ago when the public land his family had used for 100+ yrs was shut down for his use because someone signed a piece of paper, that was ok?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:14 AM   #88
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From the little I've read on it, the land was not shut down on them, they just refused to pay usage fees. Hence the cattle repo.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:18 AM   #89
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So in theory if the .gov says tomorrow that you can no longer keep fish at any location that you usually fish and feed your family from, that's ok?
Yes. If I'm using a public waterway as my private fish raising facility, and the government has decided that my usage is harming the habitat for other wild indigenous species, and after 20 years of paying nothing and ignoring numerous court orders to remove my fish, I still refuse, I would expect that eventually the government will come in, take my fish and give my nothing in return.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:20 AM   #90
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From the little I've read on it, the land was not shut down on them, they just refused to pay usage fees. Hence the cattle repo.
It was eventually shut down completely:

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3. IS THE BUNDY CATTLE FIGHT REALLY ALL ABOUT A DESERT TORTOISE?

Several observers have suggested that the fight between Bundy and the federal government revolves around an endangered tortoise. Although there’s some truth to this claim, it lacks important context.

Here’s a timeline of events:

1993: The Lake Mead National Recreation Area for the National Park Service reduce the number of cattle that could graze on the Bunkerville allotment “to 150 because of the emergency listing of the desert tortoise as an endangered species,” according to a formal agency official.
1993: Bundy “fires” the BLM.
1994: The Fish and Wildlife Service formally identifies Gold Butte as an area “critical to the long-term survival of the desert tortoise.”
1994: Federal officials revoke Bundy’s grazing permit for failure to pay and failure to reduce the number of his cattle. The Bunkerville allotment is closed to grazing.
1998: The Bureau of Land Management closes off the Gold Butte area to cattle.
2013: The Bureau of Land Management announces plans to euthanize ”hundreds” of tortoises due to budget restrictions
Gold Butte being turned into a cattle-free zone wasn’t exactly sudden. It was a few years in the making, which brings us to our next question.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:21 AM   #91
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Yes. If I'm using a public waterway as my private fish raising facility, and the government has decided that my usage is harming the habitat for other wild indigenous species, and after 20 years of paying nothing and ignoring numerous court orders to remove my fish, I still refuse, I would expect that eventually the government will come in, take my fish and give my nothing in return.
this.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:34 AM   #92
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Yes. If I'm using a public waterway as my private fish raising facility, and the government has decided that my usage is harming the habitat for other wild indigenous species, and after 20 years of paying nothing and ignoring numerous court orders to remove my fish, I still refuse, I would expect that eventually the government will come in, take my fish and give my nothing in return.
But the waterway doesn't belong to the government, it belongs to the public. It's public water/land. You would willingly let the government dictate what happens on public land even if it takes food out of the mouth of your children?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:52 AM   #93
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But the waterway doesn't belong to the government, it belongs to the public. It's public water/land. You would willingly let the government dictate what happens on public land even if it takes food out of the mouth of your children?
Bad comparison bud; hunting season, fishing season etc defeats your argument.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:58 AM   #94
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But the waterway doesn't belong to the government, it belongs to the public. It's public water/land. You would willingly let the government dictate what happens on public land even if it takes food out of the mouth of your children?
Yes, I recognize the the right, and the responsibility of the government to manage public resources like land and waterways. Anyone using resources they don't own to earn their livelihood needs to be mindful that the ability to use that resource could be taken away. I would have use the 20 year grace period to find a way to put food in my children's mouths without breaking any laws.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:14 PM   #95
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Looks like it isn't over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer1Y...ature=youtu.be
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:34 PM   #96
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That video is old - This isn't recent. As of right now, as far as I know, there is nothing "active" going on. The video was shot JUST after the stand down was announced, those vehicles later left along with the others.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:55 PM   #97
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Bad comparison bud; hunting season, fishing season etc defeats your argument.
Who set those seasons up?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 01:07 PM   #98
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In comparison to hunting/fishing, it's like the DNR taking your money from permits to use it against you to stop hunting and fishing altogether.

How about if you buy an ORV permit and that money goes directly to shutting down the ORV system?

The rancher said the permit money used to help him improve the land but now they used it to run other ranchers out.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 01:28 PM   #99
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How about if you buy an ORV permit and that money goes directly to shutting down the ORV system?
Some of it is used to close trails.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 01:29 PM   #100
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Some of it is used to close trails.
And you're ok with that too?
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