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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:18 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I don't agree 100%. Bundy stopped paying in 1993 because he felt the gov't wasn't representing him properly. I'm not sure it's his call to just say "fuck you, I don't like what you are doing so I'm not paying anymore". The laws have changed over the years, just like our trail riding laws. I don't think I would get very far using that analogy going up north to the Huron National Forest where I rode as a kid and ride the trails that are now closed.

I had his back 100% when it appeared to be all about the turtles. But knowing that this has been federal land since before Bundy's family started ranching there and he arbitrarily decided to stop paying his usage fees makes his stand less strong.

If the state of Nevada thinks the feds own too much land there, they should be the ones fighting it, not Bundy. If he wants to still use that land, then he should pay the usage fees and fight it in courts. Oh wait, he tried that and lost. (I think I heard that)
I was under the thought that he was paying the state and then the Feds wanted the money and he said no way, but continued to try and pay the state and they wouldn't accept the money?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:19 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I don't agree 100%. Bundy stopped paying in 1993 because he felt the gov't wasn't representing him properly. I'm not sure it's his call to just say "fuck you, I don't like what you are doing so I'm not paying anymore". The laws have changed over the years, just like our trail riding laws. I don't think I would get very far using that analogy going up north to the Huron National Forest where I rode as a kid and ride the trails that are now closed.

I had his back 100% when it appeared to be all about the turtles. But knowing that this has been federal land since before Bundy's family started ranching there and he arbitrarily decided to stop paying his usage fees makes his stand less strong.

If the state of Nevada thinks the feds own too much land there, they should be the ones fighting it, not Bundy. If he wants to still use that land, then he should pay the usage fees and fight it in courts. Oh wait, he tried that and lost. (I think I heard that)
The problem I see is that the courts too are corrupt. He had no choice IMO other than say fukc you. It's the only way he got attention brought to the bullshit Reid and his devil spawn are doing out there.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #183
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The Feds have succumbed to liberal enviro terrorist wishes to close access to our public lands. This is right in line with the over abundance of road closures, wilderness designations. This stuff should have happened when they closed parts of the Mohave for tortoises in the eighties. It wasn't about tortoises then it was about closing productive mining claims on public land. Today it is access roads.

The more I read, hear and see I think bundy probably owes grazing fees and has created this public land fight to avoid paying a cool million.
The fight to keep public lands free and public is righteous, it too bad Cliven is not so much.

What the BLM needs to do is take that small army and round up all the feral horses and burros on public land and turn them into dog food.

Last edited by XXXJ; April 15th, 2014 at 12:47 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:00 PM   #184
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The Feds have succumbed to liberal enviro terrorist wishes to close access to our public lands. This is right in line with the over abundance of road closures, wilderness designations. This stuff should have happened when they closed parts of the Mohave for tortoises in the eighties. It wasn't about tortoises then it was about closing productive mining claims on public land. Today it is access roads.

The more I read, hear and see I think bundy probably owes grazing fees and has created this public land fight to avoid paying a cool million.
The fight to keep public lands free and public is righteous, it too bad Cliven is not so much.

What the BLM needs to do is take that small army and round up all the feral horses and burros on public land and turn them into dog food.
he doesnt owe a cool million...the reason it got so high the court imposed a daily fee's on his cattle
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:05 PM   #185
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The problem I see is that the courts too are corrupt. He had no choice IMO other than say fukc you. It's the only way he got attention brought to the bullshit Reid and his devil spawn are doing out there.
Just curious, you have read all the court documents and consulted with an attorney to know this?


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he doesnt owe a cool million...the reason it got so high the court imposed a daily fee's on his cattle
link?


For the record, I hope he wins. But he needs to win for the right reasons.
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Last edited by whiterhino; April 15th, 2014 at 01:14 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #186
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Anyone have a link to what you've found to be the best source for updates on this?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
For the record, I hope he wins. But he needs to win for Actions under Constitutional Law.
Minor correction; "right reasons" is arbitrary to anyone with an opinion of what they personally deem is right.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #188
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Anyone have a link to what you've found to be the best source for updates on this?
Best source for all things on this topic:
The Bundy Ranch Showdown

You'll find nothing but the facts and impartial reasoning in that link.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 02:19 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
Best source for all things on this topic: The Bundy Ranch Showdown

You'll find nothing but the facts and impartial reasoning in that link.


I've been scouring sites forever reading article after article. I'm capable of formulating my own idea about whats true and not, but curious what articles others were reading.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 03:23 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Just curious, you have read all the court documents and consulted with an attorney to know this?




link?


For the record, I hope he wins. But he needs to win for the right reasons.
I have read many court documents and summaries. Why do I need to consult am attorney?

It's public land, he had the right to use it, I don't think politicians have the right to push to have it closed for bogus reasons to benifit their family.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 03:38 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Jiveturkey3 View Post
I have read many court documents and summaries. Why do I need to consult am attorney?

It's public land, he had the right to use it, I don't think politicians have the right to push to have it closed for bogus reasons to benifit their family.
But he doesn't have a right to use it to profit from. That is the issue. I can't just open up a business on federal land and make profits just because it's "public land".
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Old April 15th, 2014, 03:51 PM   #192
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Mistakes were made on both sides. At first I thought this situation could have been a catalyst for something bigger. After reading many sources, this is what I have put together. There seems to be a lot of contradictions out there so I am not sure what to believe.

The land he used was in federal possession before Nevada was even a state. His argument that the land belonged to the state is invalid. Just because your family has been doing something for so long doesn't mean you have a right to continue to do it.

The BLM actively worked to shut ranchers down and blame it on a fucking turtle while they were actually trying to make money off the land through leases.

So in the end, the ranchers right to use that land is in question, the BLM was deceitful and overreacted to the situation.

Anyway, that's my take on it.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 04:04 PM   #193
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...al-government/

Quote:
Wild horse advocates are getting angrier, saying that the roaming cattle are ruining their habitats.

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Old April 15th, 2014, 04:08 PM   #194
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Wolverines!!!!
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Old April 15th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #195
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The BLM actively worked to shut ranchers down and blame it on a fucking turtle while they were actually trying to make money off the land through leases.
Who is leasing the land now? I have not heard of anyone other than ranchers leasing the land.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Jiveturkey3 View Post
I have read many court documents and summaries. Why do I need to consult am attorney?

It's public land, he had the right to use it, I don't think politicians have the right to push to have it closed for bogus reasons to benifit their family.
Because your opinion doesn't mean shit in a court of law. And from what I understand, neither does Bundy's. That's why people consult with attorneys before spouting what is legal and what is not.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 06:30 PM   #197
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But he doesn't have a right to use it to profit from. That is the issue. I can't just open up a business on federal land and make profits just because it's "public land".
With proper permits you most certainty can. He was paying those fees until 1993 when he stopped. He was paying fees and the land wasn't being taken care of which is what the fees are for. If you don't know what happened you don't know when this all started or why. If that's the case you just can't understand any of it.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 06:35 PM   #198
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Because your opinion doesn't mean shit in a court of law. And from what I understand, neither does Bundy's. That's why people consult with attorneys before spouting what is legal and what is not.
I have no clue what you are talking about, I wonder if you do?

The courts ruled he had to pay a fee for grazing, he doesn't want to because the fees aren't being used for what they say they are used for. The court made a ruling which seems to be bullshit. It basically said it's ok for the gov to accept a fee which is stated to be used for a specific purpose, they however don't have to uphold their end of the deal. However, if you don't uphold your end you will be punished.

Think of it this way. Michigan takes you money for ORV stickers, trail permits ect, they take that money yet NEVER put any back into the system the fees are paid for. Then a court says you still have to pay but the state doesn't have to maintain anything anymore. Why would you need to pay a fee? The land is already paid for with taxes and with no further improvement no further fees are needed.

Have you read the court documents?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 06:45 PM   #199
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Old April 15th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #200
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Well it's raised enough red flags that the chair of the Government Reform committee has launched and investigation into the involvement of Obama and Reid I'm this. They site Tuesday being the day it started and also oddly the same day Neil Kornze was confirmed.

It's so odd that last year when they were going to do this it was decided it wasn't a good idea by the BLM due to it being so controversial. Now The same day Reid gets his homie confirmed as Director of the BLM it happens.
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