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Old March 25th, 2014, 10:08 AM   #41
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yes, Ford doesn't pay as well as most people believe though. But benefits are solid.
Ford is the first company to start offering 70k for entry level ME's, we were losing candidates to them when we were at 65k. (this is for directs, not contractors).
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Old March 25th, 2014, 10:11 AM   #42
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Ford is the first company to start offering 70k for entry level ME's, we were losing candidates to them when we were at 65k. (this is for directs, not contractors).
what I was trying to get at, is that the benefits are extremely different compared to when I hired (and that is true across the board for most companies).

Hell, I would have made more my 3rd and 4th year as a co-op (if I worked year round) than when I became a full hire with benefits. A full time position with benefits is worth a lot of coin, that most people out of college don't take into consideration. They look at the biggest number and get a huge grin. I have looked at relocating and basically it would take a 35%++ raise to even come close to breaking even, eand that isn't even considering that I have an active pension with Ford.
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Last edited by Bones; March 25th, 2014 at 10:16 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 10:43 AM   #43
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Thats cute. Try taking all 4 of those classes and hammering it out in 24 weeks. Can't hang? You don't get a KU degree.
Nope, Kettering doesn't require English - the first part of that statement says that I wouldn't compare the two schools. Calc was only brought up because of someone saying that a Baker Engineering degree didn't require it.

Kettering is a very different school serving a very different market.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 10:49 AM   #44
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Nope, Kettering doesn't require English - the first part of that statement says that I wouldn't compare the two schools. Calc was only brought up because of someone saying that a Baker Engineering degree didn't require it.

Kettering is a very different school serving a very different market.
My reply wasn't really meant to be at you.

I often say I don't get paid to spell.

I have had friends that had calc at other universities that I tried to help with. No joke, they were studying the history of calculous. WTF.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #45
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Not asking to be critical, just a little out of the loop.

30 years ago, GMI was a well-respected engineering school when I started looking at colleges, but the unwritten understanding was that you needed to be comfortable working in the automotive industry if you planned to go there; while they had other programs, the education was heavily auto-centric and often not valued by non-automotive employers. Still true?
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Old March 25th, 2014, 11:53 AM   #46
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Why does averyone ignore the income as a co-op when considering tuition costs? It's not an intern position.
I had taken it into consideration when I started the program, and that's what drove me to KU, as previously stated. Hell, the only pain in the ass part about the school was the location/locals we had to put up with. I enjoyed the pace, but when we left there it was ~12k/quarter. I managed to leave with no debt. Their BSME program has been highly regarded across the country, at one point in recent history it was in the top 3.

It befuddles me that tuition per term went from 12.7k to 18.4k in 7 years. Give it the benefit of the doubt and call it a 40% raise in tuition costs since you and I left roughly 7-9 years ago. I know we don't pay our co-ops 40% more than what I made as a co-op.

They estimate at 167k in total costs to graduate from KU, and it's realistic to make 50-65k through the co-op program. Call that balance 100k. Great grades going in can net you another 20k in scholarships. 80k. Transfer in the two allowed classes off the bat and take two classes out (there will be periods of 24 credits) and you can graduate in 8 terms, saving another 15k. $65k that needs to be come up with. That's a big chunk to bite off unless you're 100% sure engineering is for you, and if more scholarships and grants are utilized to get it to the 40k range, that becomes more manageable and would make me put it back towards the top of the list.

I would have gone into the medical field/trade school if I were to do it again. Finite end points the can be reflected upon as learning experiences I'm starting to believe are more preferred versus continual "fire!" that x-y-z-w-e-r-3-4-w-e need to be done and when you're done do it again in reverse with no finite end point. That is if emotion can be detached and the situation analyzed in a what went wrong what happened what went right and how can we prevent it next time case. Shit, i still would have gone to KU at that point, I was doomed to be an engineer from conception.

I started in the Bio-Medical world as a co-op, and being heavily auto-centric is not the case any more.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 12:06 PM   #47
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what I was trying to get at, is that the benefits are extremely different compared to when I hired (and that is true across the board for most companies).

Hell, I would have made more my 3rd and 4th year as a co-op (if I worked year round) than when I became a full hire with benefits. A full time position with benefits is worth a lot of coin, that most people out of college don't take into consideration. They look at the biggest number and get a huge grin. I have looked at relocating and basically it would take a 35%++ raise to even come close to breaking even, eand that isn't even considering that I have an active pension with Ford.
Trust me I hear you loud and clear. It's hard to get it through peoples heads why they should take a pay cut sometimes.

I personally took a paycut of almost 10k (on my base salary) to accept my current job so that I could have the freedom of working from home, saving money on gas, tires, oil changes, daycare, etc. My bonus is slightly better than my previous bonus, so I did at least gain a little there. Benefits were similar, but are now through my wife's plan whose plan was surprisingly awesome this year.

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Not asking to be critical, just a little out of the loop.

30 years ago, GMI was a well-respected engineering school when I started looking at colleges, but the unwritten understanding was that you needed to be comfortable working in the automotive industry if you planned to go there; while they had other programs, the education was heavily auto-centric and often not valued by non-automotive employers. Still true?
As I mentioned earlier, there are even automotive hiring managers who don't care about kettering. Most do, but some prefer "Big Ten" or Big name schools and don't care about kettering. Kettering as bill mentioned is recognized nationwide.

#24 as a college in the midwest region.
#1 for industrial engineering
#3 for BSME

According to:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...erall-rankings

It's hard to find where they rank exactly for engineering, suffice it to say it will come down to the individual hiring manager and his experience with graduates from different schools throughout the years, but I can tell you as a recruiter I try to find kettering grads to send to my managers.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 12:18 PM   #48
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I guess my take on it is that the name on the degree gets you your initial interviews when you "don't have a clue". No doubt that on average, KU grads have "more of a clue" at that point than typical grads. I would guess that they have higher student loan debt at that point also. From there it's the person and the career decisions that ultimately decide your success and salary. I don't see the additional extorsion(tuition) worth the difference in the starting pay if you're a driven individual. It might matter for the 1st 3-5 yrs of a career but by 10 it doesn't matter what name's on the degree. My $.02
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Old March 25th, 2014, 01:09 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by phittie1100 View Post
Not asking to be critical, just a little out of the loop.

30 years ago, GMI was a well-respected engineering school when I started looking at colleges, but the unwritten understanding was that you needed to be comfortable working in the automotive industry if you planned to go there; while they had other programs, the education was heavily auto-centric and often not valued by non-automotive employers. Still true?
I don't post much on here anymore since moving back east. But I am a Kettering Grad (08) and I have NEVER worked in the auto industry.

Ive done Steel manufacturing, airline interiors, solar panels, and now am working for a Berkshire Hathaway company making Wire and cable
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Old March 25th, 2014, 01:40 PM   #50
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I work for a major automotive tier I supplier. We only use Kettering students for co-op/interns and for entry level we only hire from our intern pool.

Having worked with many Kettering grads in the last ten years I'd have to say that the only thing they lack is experience. They have all been very sharp and quick to learn. Experience is the best educator but these kids are ahead of the game right out of the gate.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 02:17 PM   #51
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I work for a major automotive tier I supplier. We only use Kettering students for co-op/interns and for entry level we only hire from our intern pool.

Having worked with many Kettering grads in the last ten years I'd have to say that the only thing they lack is experience. They have all been very sharp and quick to learn. Experience is the best educator but these kids are ahead of the game right out of the gate.
If all you hire is Kettering grads how would you know? Just playing devils advocate, not saying Kettering grads aren't good
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Old March 25th, 2014, 02:32 PM   #52
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If all you hire is Kettering grads how would you know?


How do you know what your face looks like?
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Old March 25th, 2014, 02:37 PM   #53
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If all you hire is Kettering grads how would you know? Just playing devils advocate, not saying Kettering grads aren't good
Because all the students from other schools are unemployed with no work experience because they didn't hire them. Vicious cycle.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 02:38 PM   #54
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Because all the students from other schools are unemployed with no work experience because they didn't hire them. Vicious cycle.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 02:41 PM   #55
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How do you know what your face looks like?
I don't, but I feel sorry for those that do know.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #56
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I don't, but I feel sorry for those that do know.
Oh c'mon we haven't even met! I'm not that fugly!
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Old March 25th, 2014, 03:01 PM   #57
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When I hired in consulting, I hired Ivy League.
Now that I "run" a Tiered supplier, KU is my first choice.

Note: we are ME/EE centric
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Old March 25th, 2014, 03:37 PM   #58
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Oh c'mon we haven't even met! I'm not that fugly!
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Old March 25th, 2014, 04:21 PM   #59
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As a current Kettering student if I had the chance to do it over again I would have gone to some community college and taken most, if not all, of the; Calculus, Humanities, Social Science, Chemistry, and Physicis classes at half the cost that would transfer to Kettering and leave the core ME classes to Kettering. Kettering doesn't accept most other ME classes as I have talked to others from different schools and they seem to be way behind for "the same class" that I am taking. Once you are registered as a Kettering Student they allow you to transfer in 8 credits, as a transfer student you can get a Kettering degree by only taking 20-40 credits at the school and doing some co-op work.

It is not an easy school to stay on top of but it can be done, it takes 4.0 high school students and knocks them on their ass, it takes mediocre high school students and forces them to work harder than they have in the past to stay above water.

One thing Kettering did start doing is that they are offering a fixed tuition rate for a students first 4.5 years so what you pay at your acceptance is what you pay at your graduation if you make it on time. The on time graduation rate is very low compared to other schools, it jumps a lot for students that took 5 years (either because of repeat classes or adding a minor which is one term extra), and is almost non-existent after 5 years.

Kettering is not tied to the auto industry as much as it used to be in years past. It is still their main focus but they work with companies in numerous fields. In the wake of the 2008 slow down they did reduce the number of co-op terms needed to graduate as many found it difficult to find a co-op.


Also is your son A or B-section? I am president of the Kettering Off Road Club over B-section and am friends with the girl that runs Mudboggers over A-section.
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Old March 25th, 2014, 05:10 PM   #60
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As a current Kettering student if I had the chance to do it over again I would have gone to some community college and taken most, if not all, of the; Calculus, Humanities, Social Science, Chemistry, and Physicis classes at half the cost that would transfer to Kettering and leave the core ME classes to Kettering. Kettering doesn't accept most other ME classes as I have talked to others from different schools and they seem to be way behind for "the same class" that I am taking. Once you are registered as a Kettering Student they allow you to transfer in 8 credits, as a transfer student you can get a Kettering degree by only taking 20-40 credits at the school and doing some co-op work.

It is not an easy school to stay on top of but it can be done, it takes 4.0 high school students and knocks them on their ass, it takes mediocre high school students and forces them to work harder than they have in the past to stay above water.

One thing Kettering did start doing is that they are offering a fixed tuition rate for a students first 4.5 years so what you pay at your acceptance is what you pay at your graduation if you make it on time. The on time graduation rate is very low compared to other schools, it jumps a lot for students that took 5 years (either because of repeat classes or adding a minor which is one term extra), and is almost non-existent after 5 years.

Kettering is not tied to the auto industry as much as it used to be in years past. It is still their main focus but they work with companies in numerous fields. In the wake of the 2008 slow down they did reduce the number of co-op terms needed to graduate as many found it difficult to find a co-op.


Also is your son A or B-section? I am president of the Kettering Off Road Club over B-section and am friends with the girl that runs Mudboggers over A-section.
I was a mediocre high school student, and made it through KU just fine...
3.7 high school, 3.2 KU.

If I can do it in 4.5 years, most people that want to be an engineer should be able to do it.

Both of the off road clubs at KU have big titties. You've seen one pair if you were a subscriber on here.
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