The Death of Expertise - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

The Pub A friendly forum where everybody is nice, and will answer any questions you have about life.

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 28th, 2014, 10:48 AM   #1
fsumotorhead
N8KVB
 
fsumotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-24-06
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Posts: 4,202
iTrader: (34)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default The Death of Expertise

Kind of a long read, other than sounding a bit snarky and using a few overly big words, it's well worth it.



http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/...-of-expertise/
fsumotorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:18 AM   #2
feva4u
LCG
 
feva4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-01-07
Location: Petoskey, MI
Posts: 10,498
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fsumotorhead View Post
Kind of a long read, other than sounding a bit snarky and using a few overly big words, it's well worth it.



http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/17/...-of-expertise/
This made me

"The confidence of the dumb
There’s also that immutable problem known as “human nature.” It has a name now: it’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which says, in sum, that the dumber you are, the more confident you are that you’re not actually dumb. And when you get invested in being aggressively dumb…well, the last thing you want to encounter are experts who disagree with you, and so you dismiss them in order to maintain your unreasonably high opinion of yourself. (There’s a lot of that loose on social media, especially.)

All of these are symptoms of the same disease: a manic reinterpretation of “democracy” in which everyone must have their say, and no one must be “disrespected.” (The verb to disrespect is one of the most obnoxious and insidious innovations in our language in years, because it really means “to fail to pay me the impossibly high requirement of respect I demand.”) This yearning for respect and equality, even—perhaps especially—if unearned, is so intense that it brooks no disagreement. It represents the full flowering of a therapeutic culture where self-esteem, not achievement, is the ultimate human value, and it’s making us all dumber by the day."
__________________
My Jeep
feva4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:21 AM   #3
lepp1892
WebWheeling1KeyAtaTime
 
lepp1892's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-07
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 741
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I agree with this and see it a lot in the field I am in as an engineer. I feel like the older engineers have a grasp for how to design things that I was never taught. Some of this may be from the experience they have but I think a lot of it is just from the ways that they were taught. Today we have so much technology that helps us do our jobs that I think we lost out on some of the true fundamentals of engineering.
lepp1892 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:22 AM   #4
SS
Doing stuff...and things.
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: 48309
Posts: 12,142
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
This made me

"The confidence of the dumb
There’s also that immutable problem known as “human nature.” It has a name now: it’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which says, in sum, that the dumber you are, the more confident you are that you’re not actually dumb. And when you get invested in being aggressively dumb…well, the last thing you want to encounter are experts who disagree with you, and so you dismiss them in order to maintain your unreasonably high opinion of yourself. (There’s a lot of that loose on social media, especially.)

Kickstand. GreaseMonkey.

/Abandon thread
__________________
-Jer

SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:26 AM   #5
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 31,968
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Kickstand. GreaseMonkey.

/Abandon thread


It hurts to be sitting at home unemployed eh?
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:27 AM   #6
SS
Doing stuff...and things.
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: 48309
Posts: 12,142
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post


It hurts to be sitting at home unemployed eh?
Sure does. What ever will I do?!

P.S. Your information is out of date.
__________________
-Jer

SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:28 AM   #7
deerebowtie
Unchained
 
deerebowtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-04-09
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,772
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

why was this a good read, in your opinion?
deerebowtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:29 AM   #8
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 31,968
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Sure does. What ever will I do?!

P.S. Your information is out of date.
You should probably derail a thread by calling people who are smarter than you dumb.
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 11:32 AM   #9
SS
Doing stuff...and things.
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: 48309
Posts: 12,142
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
You should probably derail a thread by calling people who are smarter than you dumb.
Point confirmed.

Thanks buddy! That was easy!
__________________
-Jer

SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #10
feva4u
LCG
 
feva4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-01-07
Location: Petoskey, MI
Posts: 10,498
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lepp1892 View Post
I agree with this and see it a lot in the field I am in as an engineer. I feel like the older engineers have a grasp for how to design things that I was never taught. Some of this may be from the experience they have but I think a lot of it is just from the ways that they were taught. Today we have so much technology that helps us do our jobs that I think we lost out on some of the true fundamentals of engineering.
You can't pick up a book and learn experience.
__________________
My Jeep
feva4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:11 PM   #11
fsumotorhead
N8KVB
 
fsumotorhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-24-06
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Posts: 4,202
iTrader: (34)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerebowtie View Post
why was this a good read, in your opinion?
If only you knew some of my FB friends/family and see some of the dumb shit they post....

The comment Feva4u quoted about dumb people being more confident about not being dumb, is spot on for a few people I know personally.
fsumotorhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:17 PM   #12
ajmorell
Senior Member
 
ajmorell's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-22-07
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 3,558
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to ajmorell
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
You can't pick up a book and learn experience.
I don't disagree, but there are equally as many old timers out there that refuse to change their ways and as a whole bring down a company as there are old timers that use their experience to benefit one. It frustrates me to see senior level engineers get paid big salaries simply based on how long they've been an engineer not how good of an engineer they actually are.
ajmorell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #13
xj4life
Senior Member
 
xj4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: LaPorte, IN
Posts: 7,946
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feva4u View Post

"The confidence of the dumb
There’s also that immutable problem known as “human nature.” It has a name now: it’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which says, in sum, that the dumber you are, the more confident you are that you’re not actually dumb. And when you get invested in being aggressively dumb…well, the last thing you want to encounter are experts who disagree with you, and so you dismiss them in order to maintain your unreasonably high opinion of yourself.


I deal with a lot of these folks at work every day
__________________
This is my Jeep. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My Jeep is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. My Jeep, without me, is useless. Without my Jeep, I am useless.
xj4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #14
bigbchevy
missmrgreenagain
 
bigbchevy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-07
Location: fenton /hartland mi
Posts: 19,984
iTrader: (167)
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmorell View Post
I don't disagree, but there are equally as many old timers out there that refuse to change their ways and as a whole bring down a company as there are old timers that use their experience to benefit one. It frustrates me to see senior level engineers get paid big salaries simply based on how long they've been an engineer not how good of an engineer they actually are.
that's why unions get to me . and im in one
__________________
H.o.r.e
(mr.green)So you are calling CC a liar?? Not a nice way to treat your bitch.
tube bending and gear installs pm me for info! gears installed for $150 and up per axle.
bigbchevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:29 PM   #15
feva4u
LCG
 
feva4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-01-07
Location: Petoskey, MI
Posts: 10,498
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmorell View Post
I don't disagree, but there are equally as many old timers out there that refuse to change their ways and as a whole bring down a company as there are old timers that use their experience to benefit one. It frustrates me to see senior level engineers get paid big salaries simply based on how long they've been an engineer not how good of an engineer they actually are.
Until you've read the experience book, give them the benefit of the doubt
__________________
My Jeep
feva4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #16
ajmorell
Senior Member
 
ajmorell's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-22-07
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 3,558
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to ajmorell
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
Until you've read the experience book, give them the benefit of the doubt
I think a lot of it is what the organization forces on the individual in terms of conformity, at least that's been my limited experience. The best engineers aren't the ones who are technically savvy or can get shit done but the ones who kiss the most ass
ajmorell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 01:43 PM   #17
feva4u
LCG
 
feva4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-01-07
Location: Petoskey, MI
Posts: 10,498
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmorell View Post
I think a lot of it is what the organization forces on the individual in terms of conformity, at least that's been my limited experience. The best engineers aren't the ones who are technically savvy or can get shit done but the ones who kiss the most ass
Isn't corporate america grand?
__________________
My Jeep
feva4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 03:30 PM   #18
Skooter_Built
Fuck talk, Duck walk!
 
Skooter_Built's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Whitelake, MI
Posts: 14,596
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Default

I like smart people, they help me get my job done.
__________________
I'm the man in White.

If you want peace, prepare for war!

Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
Skooter_Built is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 03:37 PM   #19
ajmorell
Senior Member
 
ajmorell's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-22-07
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 3,558
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to ajmorell
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooter_Built View Post
I like smart people, they help me get my job done.
Future ceo right here
ajmorell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #20
Immortal
NO RELIGION WAT!
 
Immortal's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: In my garage
Posts: 26,313
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmorell View Post
Future ceo right here
If that ever happens I will pee myself.
Immortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.35026 seconds with 82 queries