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Old November 25th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #21
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It's not my fault you cannot see The Lord. Your comparison sucks btw...I'm sure you thought it was witty though
Yeah, I get that all the time from people who pass judgement based on a 2000 yr old fairy tale.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #22
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Yeah, I get that all the time from people who pass judgement based on a 2000 yr old fairy tale.
People tell you suck at analogies all the time? I would quit attempting to use them.
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Old November 25th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #23
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This winter when it's really, really cold outside, there will be hundreds if not thousands of heated churches in this state large enough to accommodate hundreds of people that will be completely empty while homeless people freeze to death on the streets. Think hard about that, then tell me how now that you have this information, you're going to make it your personal mission to make sure nobody ends up cold this winter because there is absolutely no shortage of warm buildings sitting empty 85% of the week for these people to go to stay warm. Consider me your messenger, I've spoken, now get to work.
Red Hearing. Really. Even if those churches did absolutely nothing of what you propose (which a good amount of inner city churches do something like you have proposed), they would still be doing much more then any non-faith based group, or non-faith based individuals, would be doing to help people in need. Give me an example of a homeless shelter-like organization that didn't start as a Christian, or faith based, organization and I can give you 20 for that 1.

It was a nice try, and you make a great point. Those churches do sit idle for a good chunk of the week (closer to 50% of the week for most churches) but they also have to make sure they are good stewards of what they have and who they minister to.

In a perfect society it would be great to be able to just let anybody stay in a church to stay warm. We don't live in a perfect society though. One, of many things, that comes to my mind is that churches have children in them. The legalities of having any random stranger in the building during a children's ministry is enough to prove that it can't be as simple as you propose. And that was only one reason I can think of.

You see, I've been in church for 28 years (I'm 28) and have a very keen understanding of how churches work (and don't work for that matter). I haven't just been in the pew during that time, I've been to budget meetings, any amount of committee meetings, I deal with the legality of children's ministry as a camp administrator every day. In our world, your idea wouldn't work.

And like I said earlier, alot of inner city churches will open their doors on the extremely cold nights. Even then they have to be careful though. Most are bound by liability laws, they only open the doors if they have to as not to open their church up to lawsuits or any barrage of things that would come from that.

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Yeah, I get that all the time from people who pass judgement based on a 2000 yr old fairy tale.
Huh, didn't know I passed Judgement on you. I tend to think that 'being passed judgement upon' is almost the same as 'being offended' any more. Especially on this board.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 06:06 AM   #24
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Render unto Caesar...

Some ministers do a lot of good in communities...but so do firefighters, police officers, teachers, etc. What does that have to do with taxes or housing?

However, I do empathize with the ministers who assumed that was a perk associated with their profession and are now having it taken away. Constitutionally, though, I think the judgement is sound.

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Old November 26th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #25
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People tell you suck at analogies all the time? I would quit attempting to use them.
You cut me deep
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #26
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Render unto Caesar...

Some ministers do a lot of good in communities...but so do firefighters, police officers, teachers, etc. What does that have to do with taxes or housing?

However, I do empathize with the ministers who assumed that was a perk associated with their profession and are now having it taken away. Constitutionally, though, I think the judgement is sound.
You make some good points. It is what it is.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #27
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what do you think are the possibilities that clergy will ask, or that the parish will decide to gross up the taxable value of the housing?

a larger chuck of money going to salary will crunch a lot of smaller church budgets as funds formerly used by certain programs/outreach will be repurposed to pay for the housing costs.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #28
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what do you think are the possibilities that clergy will ask, or that the parish will decide to gross up the taxable value of the housing?

a larger chuck of money going to salary will crunch a lot of smaller church budgets as funds formerly used by certain programs/outreach will be repurposed to pay for the housing costs.
That's what I've been trying to say in many, many, many more words. .
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #29
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Old November 27th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #30
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Old November 27th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #31
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You make some good points. It is what it is.
Yep. After seeing some of the things public employees are being forced to concede, I don't feel that bad about them losing tax free housing.
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