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Old November 8th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by chevotass View Post
next question. cover letters? yes or no. and if yes what to put on them.
Yes.

Short.

Sweet.

Simple.

I read at least 100 resumes a day, I skip right over the cover letters. But I'm not a typical hiring manager or HR manager. The volume of resumes I go through just won't allow me to read each cover letter. I skip straight to the resume to determine if you're remotely qualified right away. I'm only looking to find a paper match resume to job description to determine if I am going to call someone or not.

BUT, when you're applying for a job directly with the manager your cover letter (or email) is your only chance to sell yourself quickly and convince that hiring manager that he should open your resume and be excited about it. Every resume I send to my client has a "cover letter" that is written by me highlighting to the manager why I feel the candidate is a fit for his position and he should interview the candidate. This is "my" only chance to get him to read the resume.

Hi,

I'm Chevot-ASS. I am applying to the position of X. I have 5 years experience doing Y, 3 years doing T, and I work well in a team environment (or individually if that's the job). I think that my experience is somewhat applicalble and stuff and I can transfer Y and T to doing X and be a contributing member of your organization right away. I look forward to youballs on me chin.

Thanks,
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:01 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
Yes.

Short.

Sweet.

Simple.

I read at least 100 resumes a day, I skip right over the cover letters. But I'm not a typical hiring manager or HR manager. I'm only looking to find a paper match resume to job description to determine if I am going to call someone or not.

BUT, when you're applying for a job directly with the manager your cover letter (or email) is your only chance to sell yourself quickly and convince that hiring manager that he should open your resume and be excited about it.

Hi,

I'm Chevot-ASS. I am applying to the position of X. I have 5 years experience doing Y, 3 years doing T, and I work well in a team environment (or individually if that's the job). I think that my experience is somewhat applicalble and stuff and I can transfer Y and T to doing X and be a contributing member of your organization right away. I look forward to youballs on me chin.

Thanks,
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:03 AM   #43
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Listing accomplishments is good. Listing that you saved the company 37.83492% is stupid.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #44
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I scanned this thread like kickstand scanning a resume', and the only thing I want to ad is

Use correct grammar and spelling!


We have a bulletin board with some memorable resume's tacked up. My personal favorite:

' I no a litle about cmpoters and wold like to work wtih them. '

No, that wasn't mine.

Mine said ' I kin weld sorta'
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:06 AM   #45
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Listing accomplishments is good. Listing that you saved the company 37.83492% is stupid.
Depends on the position.

I think you are better off to explain HOW you saved the company $1.28 per part on such and such program.

Instead of saved 37.83492% "operating costs" "manufacruting costs" etc.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:07 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
Yes.

Short.

Sweet.

Simple.

I read at least 100 resumes a day, I skip right over the cover letters. But I'm not a typical hiring manager or HR manager. The volume of resumes I go through just won't allow me to read each cover letter. I skip straight to the resume to determine if you're remotely qualified right away. I'm only looking to find a paper match resume to job description to determine if I am going to call someone or not.

BUT, when you're applying for a job directly with the manager your cover letter (or email) is your only chance to sell yourself quickly and convince that hiring manager that he should open your resume and be excited about it. Every resume I send to my client has a "cover letter" that is written by me highlighting to the manager why I feel the candidate is a fit for his position and he should interview the candidate. This is "my" only chance to get him to read the resume.

Hi,

I'm Chevot-ASS. I am applying to the position of X. I have 5 years experience doing Y, 3 years doing T, and I work well in a team environment (or individually if that's the job). I think that my experience is somewhat applicalble and stuff and I can transfer Y and T to doing X and be a contributing member of your organization right away. I look forward to youballs on me chin.

Thanks,
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #47
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You can do that. It may get you the interview, but if the manager is specifically looking for a less experienced candidate who will be challenged by the position vs an experienced candidate who may get bored you still aren't going to get the job, so what's the difference?
True, but the article was referring more to age discrimination rather than experience discrimination. The purpose of a resume is to get a phone interview. The purpose of a phone interview is to get a face-to-face where I can wow them. You wouldn't want to be excluded before phone interview simply because of age. If they want less experience than what is on my resume, they won't call me anyway.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:23 AM   #48
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True, but the article was referring more to age discrimination rather than experience discrimination. The purpose of a resume is to get a phone interview. The purpose of a phone interview is to get a face-to-face where I can wow them. You wouldn't want to be excluded before phone interview simply because of age. If they want less experience than what is on my resume, they won't call me anyway.


You're talking about taking experience off your resume to make it look like you have less....
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:25 AM   #49
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You're talking about taking experience off your resume to make it look like you have less....
I don't really understand this either.

If you are deliberately trying to make yourself seem less experienced and useful to a company... what makes you think the job is going to pay you at the satisfactory level?
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:25 AM   #50
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Like others have said, the answer to the 1 or 2 page question really boils down to the candidate and the specific job being applied for. Personally, I still try to squeeze everything onto one page without making it look too dense. However, now that I've been in my field longer, have begun to have some more significant accomplishments, and have started looking at higher level positions it's getting tougher not to go to two pages without leaving out relevant information.

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I read an article several months back about age discrimination during hiring. The article recommended not stating "qualified...with xx years experience..." and to remove the dates from your experience section as these can indicate your age. In short, the article said you are much less likely to get a job if you have 15+ years of experience. I'm not sure I agree, but that is what they are saying these days.
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You can do that. It may get you the interview, but if the manager is specifically looking for a less experienced candidate who will be challenged by the position vs an experienced candidate who may get bored you still aren't going to get the job, so what's the difference?
I know that for many of the positions with numerous departments for the State of Michigan, whoever initially screens resumes and cover letters will scrub graduation dates, military service dates, and dates at previous positions before sending the applications and resumes of good candidates off to the people in those individual departments making the final decisions on who to interview.


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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Listing accomplishments is good. Listing that you saved the company 37.83492% is stupid.
I work with statistics, demographics, and fiscal and economic impact models. Numbers are definitely a good thing to include in this field.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #51
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craft your resume for the company where you are going to interview.

as implied above, not many are going to care if you changed tires 12 years ago BUT you can work that into the interview if you think the screener is looking for a well rounded/flexible candidate.

i ran the beer counter at a drug store, worked in a steel mill, was a security guard, had paper routes, sold door to door, yada, which i never put on the resume but was not ashamed to discuss if the screener looked like they'd take it under advisement.

IMHO, one page and offer to explain in detail what you did.

unfortunately, so much depends on the person who looks at your document, not what is on the document. if they got up on the wrong side of the bed, you are toast.

it also depends on how many employers you have worked for.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:30 AM   #52
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I bet kkodetroute55kiethshotrodshop's resume is a phone book.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #53
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You're talking about taking experience off your resume to make it look like you have less....
No, I talking removing the dates of employment for each position. Hiring firm needs to know I did cardiovascular biochemistry for Pfizer. Hiring firm does not need to know that I had that role from 1995-2007.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:41 AM   #54
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No, I talking removing the dates of employment for each position. Hiring firm needs to know I did cardiovascular biochemistry for Pfizer. Hiring firm does not need to know that I had that role from 1995-2007.
I would throw a dateless resume in the circular file.

Do you have 1 year of experience doing that or 5? or 10?

Taking dates of your resume is stupid.

Employers will want to know how much experience you have and can you hold a job.

Many employers now REQUIRE the month and year for each position/company worked for. GM and Ford BOTH require this information to submit a resume to a contract opening. Ford also requires I account for any period of time the candidate was NOT working between jobs and what their reasoning was.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 09:57 AM   #55
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I would throw a dateless resume in the circular file.

Do you have 1 year of experience doing that or 5? or 10?

Taking dates of your resume is stupid.

Employers will want to know how much experience you have and can you hold a job.

Many employers now REQUIRE the month and year for each position/company worked for. GM and Ford BOTH require this information to submit a resume to a contract opening. Ford also requires I account for any period of time the candidate was NOT working between jobs and what their reasoning was.
That is good information. I was simply paraphrasing the article. Thanks.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 10:00 AM   #56
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That is good information. I was simply paraphrasing the article. Thanks.
Yeah I don't think that article was giving the greatest advice. But then again each industry is slightly different. I am nearly 100% Automotive Engineering and Professional. So I know what our customers want from Technicians up to Directors of Engineering/Operations.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 10:04 AM   #57
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It's normally not being lazy on the 2nd page, it's that you're reading lawn care experience from 15 yrs or more ago and it's not relevant. Basically if it was long enough ago, I list the company and job title only. My resume shows career progression by title that is normal for the business that I'm in so I don't have to list what I did as a design engineer in 2004 anymore, just that I was a design engineer at XXX company for a duration of time. You're resume may be 2 pages but without knowing where you work () I would read through your resume and say hey, this guy has ran various cnc equipment in the past and has taken training to further his career.......but I could do that by reading a 1 page resume with the same info formatted differently as well. (Let me know when you want to move north )
It is good to hear your perspective. I am usually more concerned with the technical details of the resume, knowing that my primary role with a new guy will be as their trainer. It should be pointed out, by the time I see the resume management/HR has decided to bring the person in for an interview at which time I'm be able to talk about details of his/her work experience.

FWIW, this is a very good conversation, thanks for bringing this up SS.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 10:05 AM   #58
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Eh?

Finishing up an updated version of my resume' and am getting advice from a ton of different people. A lot of it is contradicting.

One page or two?
Wha??? McDonald's is requiring resumes now?


















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Old November 8th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #59
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FWIW, this is a very good conversation, thanks for bringing this up SS.
I agree. This is an excellent conversation and I thank every one of you for contributing to it. The insight here is invaluable for someone who is starting the job hunt and completing transition from the military.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #60
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When I did IT work for a company that only did career transition, two pages was the normal length.
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