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Old October 30th, 2013, 03:51 PM   #21
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Lol you really think religion is the only reason for morals than why do so many priests molest little boys?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Technically I think our purpose is to reproduce. Doesn't that seem to be the primary function of every living plant and animal?
Kickstand - I didn't say you have to have a purpose, I said you do have a purpose, even if it is just to be a food supply for the bears.

Whiterhino - if the purpose of man is to reproduced, you would be compelled to spread your seed as much as possible during your lifespan. This purpose would then support polygamy, rape, ... many things that are considered immoral.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #23
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As a non-believer, I have a very good sense of right and wrong. I did have a Christian upbringing, so there's no doubt that influenced that. I see nothing wrong with the teachings of Christianity, just the misguided bullshit around it. Except the turn the other cheek thing....just can't get behind that.

I believe in being a good person. I like to help others because it makes me feel good, and not because it's supposed to buy me an afterlife.
Turn the other cheek means if somebody insults you, take no offence to it, as Christians. Non believers get offended al the time at the littlest of things.
In the old days to be slapped with the right hand was intended as an insult. So...turn the other cheek.
If somebody attempts to harm you, defend yourself.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #24
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Turn the other cheek means if somebody insults you, take no offence to it, as Christians. Non believers get offended al the time at the littlest of things.
In the old days to be slapped with the right hand was intended as an insult. So...turn the other cheek.
If somebody attempts to harm you, defend yourself.
Generalize much?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #25
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Why aren't more atheists/non-believers murders, thieves, and down right immoral people?
Because one conducting themselves in a manner that adversely/negatively effects another person is not right. Sure God may say you shouldnt hurt other people, but there is a sect of the population that believes this not because God told them, but simply because its wrong.

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The reason the winy Atheist video got me thinking about this is because the guy thinks the question "Do you have morals?" Is ridiculous. But why? What's the point of morals for someone who believes they are an accident?
I didn't watch the video. Did the "accident" notion come from the video?

But aside from that, even if one believes they are an accident, why can they not have morals? Each of us has no control over our entrance into the world, so why would we then be saddled with the idea that because we may be accidents, we have to life an amoral life? That doesn't make sense to me.

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The bible refers to our life on earth as a puff of air. LIke on a cold morning when you exhale and you see your breath. In the grand scheme of things, that's our lives. That breath has little effect on anything. What would be the point of 'being good'?
Because we, in general, do not have a scope on the small overall impact we have on the earth in relation to its age. Some people do, but the majority dont see their time here as a blip on the radar.

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Our base morality is all founded in some form of religion or another.
You can make the argument, but that does not make it entirely true. Morals also come from respecting each other.

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I'm not saying just the ten commandments, there are plenty of other influences. Either way though, those morals are derived from the fear or respect to a deity.
Again, not entirely true. I don't spit in front of women because God told me its wrong. Its just a rude thing to do. I don't steal someones personal effects because God says its wrong, its just wrong to take something you didn't earn.

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Which non-believers and atheists have no care for. Why do they then still behave? Does it come off as lunacy to anybody else?

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Old October 30th, 2013, 07:11 PM   #26
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Yeah, I don't know where the "accident" thing came up. I'm seriously hoping that lc4x isn't actually legitimately asking the questions he's asking, I'm hoping he's just trying to make some kind of point, whatever it may be .
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Old October 30th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #27
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I'm curious as to why LC4X equates enjoying life with heinous acts of debauchery.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #28
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I'm curious as to why LC4X equates enjoying life with heinous acts of debauchery.
Because that's what his televangelist says.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #29
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I'll assume that the "accident" is that he is referring to is evolution, and restate the original question as "if we evolved from lower life forms, where did morals come from".

The short answer is that they evolved along with us.

As any organism evolves, so to the society they live in also evolves. In some animals that meant hunting as a pack, in others in meant staying together as a heard to for protection from getting hunted. For humans it meant that those that could successfully live with and cooperate with the other humans around them were more likely to live and reproduce than those that just wanted to do horrible things to those around them. So the "be a decent person" genes tended to survive, and the "be a horrible person" genes tended to die out. (although they do still persist, because occasionally they are needed)

After many generations these rules of society become so hard wired into the species in question that they are assumed to have always existed, and must have come from the creator. So any society with a creator myth will attribute their rules, or morals, to whatever they believe cause them to come onto existence.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #30
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Funny thing is what happens when we figure out which side is right and which side will be burning in hell.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #31
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Wouldn't thinking that one is right condemn them to hell for the sin of pride?
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Technically I think our purpose is to reproduce. Doesn't that seem to be the primary function of every living plant and animal?
From a strictly biological, evolutionary point of view, yes, but there's more. Not only are we to reproduce, but we are to reproduce offspring that will also reproduce. And a creature that is able to learn to exist within the society in which is was born will be better able to do that than one which cannot.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #33
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Wouldn't thinking that one is right condemn them to hell for the sin of pride?
No. According to most Christian teachings, you can sin and be as horrible person as you want for most of your life, as long as you repent and say you believe in Jesus and his taking away your sin before you die you'll be OK.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:43 PM   #34
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'Uh, Jesus- sorry for being a dick on the internet. Can I come in now?'
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #35
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Personally, I find that I enjoy doing things that make other people happy, and get unhappy when I find out that something I did made other people unhappy.

Also, I find that my morals tend to be along the lines of "the golden rule"

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One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
So with regard to things like murder, rape, stealing etc. I would not do those things because I know they would make someone else unhappy, and I would not want them done to my. However other things, like going to strip clubs or doing drugs, which a religious person may think of as immoral I have no problem with.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #36
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Personally, I find that I enjoy doing things that make other people happy, and get unhappy when I find out that something I did made other people unhappy.

Also, I find that my morals tend to be along the lines of "the golden rule"



So with regard to things like murder, rape, stealing etc. I would not do those things because I know they would make someone else unhappy, and I would not want them done to my. However other things, like going to strip clubs or doing drugs, which a religious person may think of as immoral I have no problem with.
It seems so obvious...
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Old October 30th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #37
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If someone needs to be threatened to treat people right, they weren't raised properly.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #38
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Funny thing is what happens when we figure out which side is right and which side will be burning in hell.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #39
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My question would be why do you think we need a purpose when there was, at the basic idea, no purpose to our beginning? We're accidents.
What do you mean by accident? In the world of science (the world of understanding) the word doesn't need to exist, because there are no accidents, there are just actions and the reasons they happen. Whether those actions were unintentional or surprising to you (an accident) is largely emotional.

So with that said, there is no purpose to our beginning. There is simply a reason we had a beginning. Or, for all we know you could say it's one and the same. We haven't gotten that far yet.

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Old October 30th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #40
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No. According to most Christian teachings, you can sin and be as horrible person as you want for most of your life, as long as you repent and say you believe in Jesus and his taking away your sin before you die you'll be OK.
We are all sinners, even if we are saved/born again. By repenting you need to mean it from the heart and want to change your ways. Only God knows a mans heart, so if you are only asking for forgiveness to save your butt and continuing to sin, do you really mean it?
It should not be out of fear that we try not to sin but out of wanting to please God. Remember being a kid and how much you wanted to make your dad happy by doing what he asked of you? Same sort of principle.
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