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Old November 10th, 2013, 04:11 PM   #1
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Default Will it be harder to buy ammo?

Wonder how much truth there is to this?

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...spiracy-theory

At first blush, itís a pretty straightforward business story. Doe Run is poised to close its lead processing facilities, marking the end of an era Ė itís the final primary lead smelter in the United States, and itís operated in its Herculaneum location since 1892.

So why is it closing? The smelting process is pretty awful for the environment, and the Doe Run Co. was ordered by the EPA to install new pollution control technologies needed to reduce sulfur dioxide and lead emissions as required by the Clean Air Act. The company will instead close its lead smelter.

At this point, youíre probably thinking the right will use this as an example of EPA regulations hurting an American business, but thatís not quite it. Rather, conservatives see this as part of a larger conspiracy involving Ö guns.

Steve M. flagged this item, which generated some attention on the right yesterday.
There are numerous alarming reasons why the US government and the military have been buying up all the ammo. Hereís one of them. Obama and the EPA just shut down the last lead smelting plant in the US. They raised the EPA regulations by 10 fold and it would have cost the plant $100 million to comply. You can own all the guns you want, but if you canít get ammo, you are out of luck.

Remember when Obama promised his minions that he was working on gun control behind the scenes? Welcome to it.
Hereís the pitch: the EPA says itís enforcing the Clean Air Act, but whatís really happening is that the Obama administration is using the environment as a pretense to go after a lead smelter so bullets will be scarce and more expensive. The far-right blog post added that this is ďan excellent chance that Obama will rig the market to where all ammo has to be purchased from a government entity instituting de facto ammo registration.Ē

It is, to be sure, a wonderfully creative argument, and Iíll gladly give conservatives credit for their remarkable imaginations. There is, however, one noticeable flaw in the conspiracy theory.

The EPA first went after the Doe Run Co. and its smelting operation in 2008. President Obama took office in 2009. If enforcement of environmental safeguards was used to secretly undermine access to ammunition, the plot was launched by the notorious gun-grabbers in the Bush/Cheney administration.

Keep this in mind when your wacky uncle who watches Fox all day sends you an all-caps email on the subject.
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Old November 10th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #2
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In a way I'm glad I do not have kids, I would feel bad about the government they would come to know.
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Old November 10th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #3
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Old November 10th, 2013, 06:17 PM   #4
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I wonder what we will use for wheel balancing weights?
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Old November 10th, 2013, 06:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
I wonder what we will use for wheel balancing weights?
The industry is already moving away from lead wheel weights anyway. So this just plays into it, run the supply so low and cost up on so that the alternative, becomes "cheap".
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Old November 10th, 2013, 08:46 PM   #6
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Everything will just got to steel shot, just like waterfoul... If there's a will there's a way
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Old November 10th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #7
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Nevermind the fact that 95% of the lead used from ammunition comes from secondary smelters. This was the last "primary" smelter in operation. Did anyone notice any effect on the market when all the others closed their doors over the years? Nope.

Just alarmist bull shit.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 06:48 AM   #8
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Nevermind the fact that 95% of the lead used from ammunition comes from secondary smelters. This was the last "primary" smelter in operation. Did anyone notice any effect on the market when all the others closed their doors over the years? Nope.

Just alarmist bull shit.
Good to know. That's why my opening statement was wondering how much truth to it. But I'm still gonna continue to add to my collection versus deplete it.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 08:28 AM   #9
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Good to know. That's why my opening statement was wondering how much truth to it. But I'm still gonna continue to add to my collection versus deplete it.
Haven't been to the range in months. Hate to shoot up any ammo right now- plus my stockpile is mainly self defense rounds anyway.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 09:39 AM   #10
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i jump to the conclusion it is about the ammo

if the EPA is so concerned about lead in the environment then why don't they forbid lead weights for fishing and when are they going to ban lead-acid batteries
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Old November 11th, 2013, 09:44 AM   #11
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i jump to the conclusion it is about the ammo

if the EPA is so concerned about lead in the environment then why don't they forbid lead weights for fishing and when are they going to ban lead-acid batteries
It's not about ammo.

It's about a company that doesn't want to invest $100,000,000 into a lead smelting plant that is over 120 years old to bring it to the standards that all of the other plants meet.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #12
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It's not about ammo.

It's about a company that doesn't want to invest $100,000,000 into a lead smelting plant that is over 120 years old to bring it to the standards that all of the other plants meet.
Correct. This is about the processing of lead, not the product. Do you recall what Lake Erie looked like 20 years ago before processing procedure changes were implemented for the auto industry? And yet we still have cars to drive today and the water is MUCH cleaner.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 12:33 PM   #13
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But I bet it WILL be used as an excuse to raise ammo prices.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #14
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But I bet it WILL be used as an excuse to raise ammo prices.

How true!! Same as some sheik tripping and stubbing a toe means higher gas prices at the pump.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #15
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But I bet it WILL be used as an excuse to raise ammo prices.
Considering most production companies didn't use the current shortage due to high demand as an excuse to raise prices, a 5% drop in lead production won't either.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #16
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Considering most production companies didn't use the current shortage due to high demand as an excuse to raise prices, a 5% drop in lead production won't either.
That shortage was due to insufficient production capability for the demand, not insufficient raw material.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 01:54 PM   #17
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That shortage was due to insufficient production capability for the demand, not insufficient raw material.
Can anyone explain to me why demand was so much higher than years past when I could walk in Cabelas 7 days a week and pick up 1000 rounds if desired. Now I can only find 1 box of 50 rounds every 2 months if I lucky.

I'm not buying the "increased demand" argument, unless you include the US government/military that is buying it all up before it reaches the stores.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:23 PM   #18
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Can anyone explain to me why demand was so much higher than years past when I could walk in Cabelas 7 days a week and pick up 1000 rounds if desired. Now I can only find 1 box of 50 rounds every 2 months if I lucky.
Obama. All the publicity from gun related crimes and liberal outcry for more strict gun control has not helped. That said, there's plenty of ammo available you just have to know where to look. I saw 9mm ammo for $27/100 shipped online yesterday and see it regularly at about 30 cents per round shipped
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:44 PM   #19
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The only reason prices sky rocketed is because there was people that knew other people would pay ridiculous prices for them. They just took advantage of the situation. I saw a DPMS A.R. for sale for $3,000 dollars when the AWB scare happened. Now I can go into Cabelas and get one for $899 with 4-30 rnd mags a lock box for it and a bear grylls survival kit. lol
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Old November 13th, 2013, 03:04 PM   #20
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The only reason prices sky rocketed is because there was people that knew other people would pay ridiculous prices for them. They just took advantage of the situation. I saw a DPMS A.R. for sale for $3,000 dollars when the AWB scare happened. Now I can go into Cabelas and get one for $899 with 4-30 rnd mags a lock box for it and a bear grylls survival kit. lol
I remember you.

You are not allowed to comment on price gougers.
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