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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by howell_jeep View Post
Gov't cannot make a law to endorse or oppose a religion. It could educate its citizens about an upcoming mass time.
I would see advertising mass times as promoting a religion.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #42
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I would see advertising mass times as promoting a religion.
Would it be unconstitutional if it was not a law?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 12:08 PM   #43
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Would it be unconstitutional if it was not a law?


The first amendment is the law I'm talking about.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 12:21 PM   #44
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The first amendment is about what the government can do, not about what the church can do.

How did I end up arguing the conservative side here?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #45
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The first amendment is about what the government can do, not about what the church can do.

How did I end up arguing the conservative side here?
You read my first post.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post


The first amendment is the law I'm talking about.
Yes.

I'm talking about a member of the gov't informing people about an upcoming mass. There is no law that tells him to do it. He just does it.

Let's say there is a township meeting and one of the officials at the end of the meeting tells people about mass time or bingo night at a church.

Would that be against the constitution even though there is no law that tells the official to do this?

What if it wasn't an official, but that official let someone from the public make an announcement at the end of a meeting about a mass at church.

Would that be against the constitution?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by howell_jeep View Post
Yes.

I'm talking about a member of the gov't informing people about an upcoming mass. There is no law that tells him to do it. He just does it.

Let's say there is a township meeting and one of the officials at the end of the meeting tells people about mass time or bingo night at a church.

Would that be against the constitution even though there is no law that tells the official to do this?

What if it wasn't an official, but that official let someone from the public make an announcement at the end of a meeting about a mass at church.

Would that be against the constitution?
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on constitutional law and how it applies to those type of situations. I think it would be a violation of the spirit of the first amendment for a government official to make announcements that would likely be seen as promotion of a religion in an official setting.

If there was a regular public comment period at the end of the meeting where anyone could speak I think it would be OK, but not if the person is getting a special allowance to their mass schedule.

If it's a community event that a church happens to be putting on I would have no problem with it either way.

I get the feeling you're trying to paint me into a corner so I'll anxiously await your next post.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #48
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I wonder if our founding fathers would have thought that today liberals have twisted their words, "separation of church and state".
Obviously they had something different in mind.

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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #49
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I wonder if our founding fathers would have thought that today liberals have twisted their words, "separation of church and state".
Obviously they had something different in mind.

http://hawthornephoto.com/walk.htm
The words "separation of church and state" do not appear in any law.

This is what our founding fathers put in the constitution:

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
I don't think the founding father meant to have "as long as it's Christianity" after that. What do you think?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #50
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The words "separation of church and state" do not appear in any law.

This is what our founding fathers put in the constitution:



I don't think the founding father meant to have "as long as it's Christianity" after that. What do you think?
With the founders being believers of Jesus Christ just might be enough to speak up for Christianity.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #51
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With the founders being believers of Jesus Christ just might be enough to speak up for Christianity.
Yes, but they were smart enough not to specify Christianity, so that state backing cannot be implied.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #52
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Yes, but they were smart enough not to specify Christianity, so that state backing cannot be implied.
True, they set it up so that anybody could practice any religion they wanted without persecution.
Today it seems Islam is getting special treatment and Christianity is being stepped on.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #53
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True, they set it up so that anybody could practice any religion they wanted without persecution.
Today it seems Islam is getting special treatment and Christianity is being stepped on.
Any examples? Just curious?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #54
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Any examples? Just curious?
Do you live under a rock?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
The first amendment is about what the government can do, not about what the church can do.

How did I end up arguing the conservative side here?

<put hands together in Mr. Burns fashion> Excellent </>



Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
True, they set it up so that anybody could practice any religion they wanted without persecution.
Today it seems Islam is getting special treatment and Christianity is being stepped on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Do you live under a rock?
I agree to an extent but also you have to realize Christians look at it from a Christian perspective. Just like the fat kid that didn't get picked in dodgeball, we see things how we want to see it.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #56
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Do you live under a rock?
Apparently. I don't feel that Christians, the vast majority of the population of our country are getting stepped on. Nor do I see Islam getting any special treatment. That's why I asked for examples?

I think you have examples in your head, but when you list them, I'm going to laugh.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #57
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Apparently. I don't feel that Christians, the vast majority of the population of our country are getting stepped on. Nor do I see Islam getting any special treatment. That's why I asked for examples?

I think you have examples in your head, but when you list them, I'm going to laugh.
If Christians are the vast majority of our country then the minority is a bunch of winy nitpickers that get thier way.

I'll give you an example. I worked for two school districts. I had a shirt that had a cross on the back. I was told not to wear it. I worked with a muslim women (who lives in our country, land of the free) who had on her head covering every day. Both are expressions of our religion.

She was a great lady though, very funny, we got along great. And honestly, I think, in that job, it was the athiest chick I worked with that 'told on' me.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:47 PM   #58
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If Christians are the vast majority of our country then the minority is a bunch of winy nitpickers that get thier way.

I'll give you an example. I worked for two school districts. I had a shirt that had a cross on the back. I was told not to wear it. I worked with a muslim women (who lives in our country, land of the free) who had on her head covering every day. Both are expressions of our religion.

She was a great lady though, very funny, we got along great. And honestly, I think, in that job, it was the athiest chick I worked with that 'told on' me.
Yes a majority of America is Christian.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159548/id...christian.aspx

Also let me introduce you to the idea of "tyranny of the majority"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Edit: forgot to laugh at your example.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:47 PM   #59
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If Christians are the vast majority of our country then the minority is a bunch of winy nitpickers that get thier way.

I'll give you an example. I worked for two school districts. I had a shirt that had a cross on the back. I was told not to wear it. I worked with a muslim women (who lives in our country, land of the free) who had on her head covering every day. Both are expressions of our religion.

She was a great lady though, very funny, we got along great. And honestly, I think, in that job, it was the athiest chick I worked with that 'told on' me.
The counter argument there would be that while your shirt is an expression of your religion, her head covering is a requirement of hers.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 08:03 AM   #60
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Apparently. I don't feel that Christians, the vast majority of the population of our country are getting stepped on. Nor do I see Islam getting any special treatment. That's why I asked for examples?

I think you have examples in your head, but when you list them, I'm going to laugh.
The suppression of Christianity in the military is one.
They want God out and open the door for homosexuality.
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