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Old October 28th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #21
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Not entirely true. If a church claims to be a non-profit they aren't suppose to use the pulpit to talk about politics. There was a 'strike' in a sort of sense a couple years ago where a group of pastors broke this rule because they didn't think it was constitutionally sound. They put thier church at risk of being denied or revoked thier non-profit standing.
They put the tax exemption at risk, not the church. Oh, wait- that's what it's come down to, hasn't it?
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Old October 28th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #22
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Not entirely true. If a church claims to be a non-profit they aren't suppose to use the pulpit to talk about politics. There was a 'strike' in a sort of sense a couple years ago where a group of pastors broke this rule because they didn't think it was constitutionally sound. They put thier church at risk of being denied or revoked thier non-profit standing.
After I wrote that I started to remember something about that. My thoughts are that the first amendment means that the government should have no say about what is said from the pulpit. As long as the preacher wasn't somehow getting compensated for the endorsement I don't see a problem with it.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #23
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They put the tax exemption at risk, not the church. Oh, wait- that's what it's come down to, hasn't it?
To the extent that the tax exemption is what separates churches from other businesses it is what it comes down to.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #24
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Not entirely true. If a church claims to be a non-profit they aren't suppose to use the pulpit to talk about politics. There was a 'strike' in a sort of sense a couple years ago where a group of pastors broke this rule because they didn't think it was constitutionally sound. They put thier church at risk of being denied or revoked thier non-profit standing.
I think churches should rethink their stand on this law. The people need to be educated about who to vote for and who not to vote for because of what they, the politicians stand for.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 03:45 PM   #25
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I think churches should rethink their stand on this law. The people need to be educated about who to vote for and who not to vote for because of what they, the politicians stand for.
I agree with this- simply because unions are allowed to 'educate' their membership on voting.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #26
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I think churches should rethink their stand on this law. The people need to be educated about who to vote for and who not to vote for because of what they, the politicians stand for.
I agree, particularly with regards to issues that deal with the theological stance of the church. The church should be able to tell it's members which politicians stances are aligned with the churches stances.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 04:27 PM   #27
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They put the tax exemption at risk, not the church. Oh, wait- that's what it's come down to, hasn't it?
Isn't that what exactly what I just said in a few less words?

"They put the tax exemption at risk, not the church"
"They put thier church at risk of being denied or revoked thier non-profit standing."



The church could survive with out a non-profit status, but it would be one more hardship to the church. Most churches, btw, give away a hefty (upwards of 50%) amount of thier budget to help people both far away (through missionaries) and locally (in many different ways). I think that alone justifies a tax exempt status.


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After I wrote that I started to remember something about that. My thoughts are that the first amendment means that the government should have no say about what is said from the pulpit. As long as the preacher wasn't somehow getting compensated for the endorsement I don't see a problem with it.
The government does according to that law. I don't think they have microphones in each sanctuary though. I'm not that crazy. However, someone could argue that that law is in place because of "seperation of church and state".
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Old October 28th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #28
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I would be fine with church leaders talking about whatever they wanted politically as long as their tax exempt status was revoked. It's the same rule for all 501(c)(3) entities.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #29
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The government does according to that law. I don't think they have microphones in each sanctuary though. I'm not that crazy. However, someone could argue that that law is in place because of "seperation of church and state".
I would argue the opposite, that a law like that should not exist because of the 1st amendment.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 03:35 AM   #30
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Im not a Democrat. Separation of Church and State is a wonderful idea.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:53 AM   #31
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There is nothing we can do to fix any of this now.

Your duty as a true Patriot is to your family and the Patriots all around you.

DHS is preparing for war. That is no longer in question. It's time we all do the same lest we languish our children's future to the horrors of life under tyranny.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:58 AM   #32
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There is nothing we can do to fix any of this now.

Your duty as a true Patriot is to your family and the Patriots all around you.

DHS is preparing for war. That is no longer in question. It's time we all do the same lest we languish our children's future to the horrors of life under tyranny.
Wha?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 07:06 AM   #33
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Wha?
The chit is going to hit the fan
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Old October 29th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #34
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The sky is falling.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #35
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While I feel that a church should be able to suggest candidates that are in line with the church's priorities, this is not the same as 'endorsing' a candidate- i.e. advertising that such and such church supports this candidate.

And on the flip side of that coin- I know what Ted Nugent's political stance is, but when I go to a concert I want to hear music not politics. I am willing to bet that there are many church goers that do not want to hear politics during a sermon.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #36
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After I wrote that I started to remember something about that. My thoughts are that the first amendment means that the government should have no say about what is said from the pulpit. As long as the preacher wasn't somehow getting compensated for the endorsement I don't see a problem with it.
Taking a federal grant is not getting compensated?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #37
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I would argue the opposite, that a law like that should not exist because of the 1st amendment.
I think it can go both ways. By endorsing a government _____ your are bring together the church and state. However, the government shouldn't be able to tell the church they can't.

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While I feel that a church should be able to suggest candidates that are in line with the church's priorities, this is not the same as 'endorsing' a candidate- i.e. advertising that such and such church supports this candidate.

And on the flip side of that coin- I know what Ted Nugent's political stance is, but when I go to a concert I want to hear music not politics. I am willing to bet that there are many church goers that do not want to hear politics during a sermon.
You'd be surprised.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:18 AM   #38
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No, the first amendment does not work both ways. Churches are free to endorse and cooperate with the government, or oppose it if it chooses to. The government can not endorse or oppose a religion.
Gov't cannot make a law to endorse or oppose a religion. It could educate its citizens about an upcoming mass time.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #39
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I guess if the church is spending it's own resources promoting a candidate in the community at large I could see a problem with it..

Except maybe in the most extreme cases I do not think the government should be saying anything about what is said from the pulpit. If the congregation doesn't like what the preacher is preaching about they can deal with it, the government should not be involved.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #40
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I think it can go both ways. By endorsing a government _____ your are bring together the church and state. However, the government shouldn't be able to tell the church they can't.
The first amendment is about what the government can do, not about what the church can do.

How did I end up arguing the conservative side here?
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