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Old November 9th, 2006, 01:34 PM   #61
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OK, but IF we are talking Christianity then you can and do have sin in your life but can be with God in heaven through the sacrifice of Jesus. So yes, I have a tatoo and have been know to curse, but don't plan on seeing ya in hell.

I dont smoke anymore and that wasnt the point i was trying to make but there are alot of people that attend church and believe and what not that do smoke and i was just pointing out things that a large percentage of the population do that are considered sins....

let me get this straight, you can sin all you want as long as you believe that Jesus died for your sins? I guess i dont understand.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:03 PM   #62
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let me get this straight, you can sin all you want as long as you believe that Jesus died for your sins? I guess i dont understand.
This sums up Christianity for me. The best part of the gospel about three men hanging on crosses 1) Jesus 2)a repentent theif who asked for forgiveness and 3) a man (who some say was similar to white-collar crimes (ie. taxes) who was only concerned for his own life and did not ask for forgiveness :

Luke 23:38-43

"
And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

You see, the man hanging on the cross next to him was a thief. He had committed crimes and sin. Yet on his final breath he asked for forgiveness through Jesus, who's response was "Today you will be with me in heaven".

And again, Jesus told a parabole of the workers in the vineyard. Where workers were recruited to the fields early in the morning, mid-day and at the 11th hour, just before the sun set. And at the end of the day all the workers were paid equally, regardless of the amount of work. In other words, you will not be rewarded based on the amount of good you do in your lifetime, only if you are freed from sin at the end of your lifetime. This get's people stirred up because it means even if Ghandi did great things for mankind he was still separated from God by his sin that was not washed away.

Matthew 20:116:

For the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the market place; 4 and to them he said, `You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.' So they went. 5 Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing; and he said to them, `Why do you stand here idle all day?' 7 They said to him, `Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, `You go into the vineyard too.' 8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, `Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.' 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the householder, 12 saying, `These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' 13 But he replied to one of them, `Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you, and go; I choose to give to this last as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?' 16 So the last will be first, and the first last."
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:11 PM   #63
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let me get this straight, you can sin all you want as long as you believe that Jesus died for your sins? I guess i dont understand.

quite literally, many christains believe that there is no single person on this planet that is sin free. it's my understanding, that God doesn't assign various levels of sin.

the sin of pride is equally sinful as the sin of incest, rape and murder.

of course, we typically don't agree with such a notion, and this is also one of the major sticking points with many folks.

that being said, when people continue to intentionally commit sinful acts, then think that there'll be a "get out of jail card" by expressing belief in Jesus' Salvation one has to wonder aloud if they really believe...
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:16 PM   #64
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We are all sinners according to the bible. I don't go to church, if I did I would burst into flames.

Gambling is a sin, yet show me a church that don't have bingo
http://www.gotquestions.org/gambling-sin.html


I think that's all I need to say.

http://www.hisriver.net if you like, you can even hear the pastor's messages in their entirety in .mp3 format.

yes, we are all sinners according to every translation of the bible I have read, or had quoted to me.

your statement about "bursting into flames" for seeking help/salvation leads me to believe that you're right, you really don't get it. :)

as for rme, one of the biggest things I have struggled with, is that I have a tough enough time forgiving myself for some of the dreadful things I have done, and it's a foreign concept for me to think that there's this power that can just grant me grace.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:21 PM   #65
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quite literally, many christains believe that there is no single person on this planet that is sin free. it's my understanding, that God doesn't assign various levels of sin.

the sin of pride is equally sinful as the sin of incest, rape and murder.

of course, we typically don't agree with such a notion, and this is also one of the major sticking points with many folks.

that being said, when people continue to intentionally commit sinful acts, then think that there'll be a "get out of jail card" by expressing belief in Jesus' Salvation one has to wonder aloud if they really believe...
Thats just it, most of the time religion seems like a great bandwagon for some people to jump on when its convient for them.

I still don't see where it's right for churches to hold bingo night for a cash prize, or for members of the congregation to smoke and curse and drink and commit adultry when they think no one is looking, but tell me I am going to hell for not attending church or saying I don't believe.

It don't matter because at the beginning of the thread Dave said this isn't a debate just a question. I posted my opinion you can post yours and everything will be peachy.


the bursting into flames wasnt a literal comment.......
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:25 PM   #66
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. to those that avoid church due to the hippocrits, his rebuttal is that he'd rather spend a little time in church with the hippocrits, than burn in hell with them for eternity.

While this is really still offtopic....by that description I read "if you don't go to church you go to hell"


if that's the case....It's gonna be warm where I go :tonka: or is it.....never mind...that would be a whole new discussion.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:45 PM   #67
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While this is really still offtopic....by that description I read "if you don't go to church you go to hell"


if that's the case....It's gonna be warm where I go :tonka: or is it.....never mind...that would be a whole new discussion.

the folks at the river, generally speaking would not make that statement. Rather, Jim would probably just point out, that we all need help learning the word, and staying the course. hence why 'the need for church'.


Redhead:
yes, hipocracy, and other people passing judgement are huge turnoffs, and previously were reasons why I stayed away as well.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:53 PM   #68
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Mortal sins vs. non-mortal sins

Murder, rape etc. = mortal
smoking cussing and tat's = non- mortal


Now.................. back to sticking on topic!
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Old November 9th, 2006, 02:57 PM   #69
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I still don't see where it's right for churches to hold bingo night for a cash prize, or for members of the congregation to smoke and curse and drink and commit adultry when they think no one is looking, but tell me I am going to hell for not attending church or saying I don't believe.
Well, according to scripture you can only enter heaven by believing, so technically they're right on that note. But they would not necessarily be right if they were to tell you you are going to hell for your life deeds, because if you read the scripture above you will see that anyone can get into heaven THROUGH BELIEVING regardless of their lifes accomplishments.

What's interesting that I considered after Ryebread's comments above. In both the parabole and the scene of the cross is that the people who came at the 11th hour or the man hanging on the cross did not know about the opportunity (or Jesus) and therefore did not "sin" in spite of him. I wonder if you know about Jesus and continue to sin if you are still eligible for forgiveness at death? I would think yes, but it is not really clear from those two scriptures.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 03:01 PM   #70
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Some things I don't care for:
church politics
lame activities
boring teachings
false teachings
wierd rituals
weak men/leaders
unaccepting attitude
elitist attitude
out of date culture
dissagreements
churchy language
dressing up
and thats just the beginning!


If someone made a thread about things they enjoy about church, my list woudl be longer of course
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Old November 9th, 2006, 03:07 PM   #71
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I wonder if you know about Jesus and continue to sin if you are still eligible for forgiveness at death?

I should hope so because you admit to sinning.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #72
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the bursting into flames wasnt a literal comment.......
You've never been to 'spicey burrito bingo night'.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 04:02 PM   #73
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The communion wafers taste like shit.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 04:30 PM   #74
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The communion wafers taste like shit.
yeah but i go up for seconds on the wine .. and thirds.. and fourths.. uhh and i take the rest back to my pew..
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Old November 9th, 2006, 04:36 PM   #75
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The communion wafers taste like shit.
I know that is true! hahahaha

I will always remember the first time I went to a church that was not catholic, they had REAL bread! It was sweet. The funny thing to me is that Catholics give cheap bread but real wine, protestants give real break and fake wine. Sup wit dat!? I want to have the real deal for both !
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Old November 9th, 2006, 04:42 PM   #76
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in the church, I was taught about joshua 10:13.

this still gives me a headache.

And don't forget about genesis 30:35-39

this is helpful to all farmers wanting to make cool animals

I wanted a cat with a hump, so I just mated a cat with a camel, and I made myself a humped cat

:tonka: :tonka:

The science/mythology is so awesome in the bible.

sorry, I will go back on topic
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Old November 9th, 2006, 04:57 PM   #77
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I don't like churches that are poorly ran, and poorly organized.
I don't like churches that fail to understand what keeps THEIR members interested.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 05:10 PM   #78
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Over the span of 46 years i have seen way to much hypocritical activities buy church members .

Condem me for what i do , but when no one is looking they do the same shit .

Things like our local catholic church which begs money to no end yet paid cash for the motel behind the church and are still running it as a motel . Odd they pay no tax .

The people that so claim there love of God yet i doubt 1/2 of them could stand up to me on morals that i have lived by . Ill not be judged by some one who only thinks there better then me .

Many churchs " demand " a percentage of your income . " Demand " ? hardly


Then when all that is said and done i try to think with pure logic . That leaves me clearly seeing evolution as truth .

As my Nephew says ( he is a strong church member ) Uncle it requires a leap of faith . Yep falling off a cliff works best if you " leap " too but its still illogical .
Saying your not a Christian because some Christians are hypocrits is like saying you don't wheel because a lot of wheelers are morons...

Christianity says only God can judge you, so others in the church can judge you all they want and you can tell them to pound sand

If you believe in God, and believe that he created you, then you probably also believe that your wealth is his wealth. God asks you to give back a small portion of your wealth so that the church can help others. Saying no is like buying some popcorn for your son, then him not giving you any

If don't believe that God created your life, then obviously that won't make any sense at all.

I didn't mean to pick on you Grandman, just wanted to use your examples for illustration.

I don't care if people don't believe in God (Christianity says I should, but I'm not going to force myself on anyone) I just want it to be acceptable for people to say... I don't go to church, because I don't believe in God.
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Old November 9th, 2006, 07:08 PM   #79
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I'd make a stupid joke....but then I'd have to say with my head bowed.........I'm sorry lord that weren't right.....and bless the starving pigmys in (wherever it was) "Larry the cable guy"
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Old November 9th, 2006, 07:34 PM   #80
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Ok... here we go... flame on...

I have not found an organised church that I like. I am a religous person. What I find is that I am judged. It is not for Christians to judge me, rather it is Him who is to judge. I have alot of tattoos that depict death and dying, and yeah maybe my humor is a bit off key. However I do no intentionally do anything against Him. Sex, murder and many other things I joke about are contained in the scriptures, although they aren't really talked about much. Maybe society holds me in a little disarray, but none the less I try not to do anything against my beliefs, which is non denominational. The one Church I did attend for a tad bit, which is the same Church that Grifter and 87 YJ attend, was pretty cool until I started into a Tuesday night group. Things fell apart from there as I saw that politics, to a point, still ruled. I want a Church that is about faith. Who cares about who you are or what you do... as long as you are there for the right reasons. Love people for who they are, and not what you stereotype them to be.
Bill, you should attend my church sometime. You think you have alot of tattoos, you should see a good friend of mine who attends the same church. He owns a tattoo shop.......................and no one judges him for his looks.
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