Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 9th, 2006, 09:00 AM   #41
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,758
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

to me, after stepping back away from it for a bit, Christianity looks just like a cult...anybody else feel the same way?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 09:34 AM   #42
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,293
iTrader: (39)
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Dave, I will give you what you asked for, even though I don't normally talk about religion anymore online.

IMO, Religion is for the weak. It is for people who are either confused, or can't find the answers in life, and choose to turn to make believe objects for answers. Religion is turned to when somebody doesn't know the answer. Using religion in any argument is basically giving up, and losing to the person who can argue reason.

This world revolves around absolutes. If I need something to happen, I am the only person who can make it happen. If I can not see, feel, or hear something, it is not there. Sitting next to my bed with my hands in a cute little pancake, and thinking that some made up "lord" in the sky will answer my problems is an absolute joke.

I also believe that people who get caught in the religious brainwashing web become WEAKER with time. They start putting more and more "faith" in made up, mythical beings to get answers for their troubles. When all they have to do is look around, and they can find the real answers.

According to the religions I know, and understand, the whole point is to insure greatness and eternal happiness in the afterlife. Since I don't believe in afterlife, I devote my time and energy making my life the best it can be NOW as opposed to basing my life around going to heaven ( which cannot be proven it even exists ).



I grew up catholic, I went to church with my mom (my dad has never been) until I was 15. I even went to catechism for 7 years, and I have read through the bible numerous times. My theories about religion are not made from being one sided. I have spent hundreds of hours in the church.
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 09:51 AM   #43
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,505
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
to me, after stepping back away from it for a bit, Christianity looks just like a cult...anybody else feel the same way?
If it is a cult then I'm glad to be caught up in the nonsense that as you see it as.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 09:58 AM   #44
fr3db3ar
KISS MY AVATAR
 
fr3db3ar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,426
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to fr3db3ar Send a message via AIM to fr3db3ar Send a message via Yahoo to fr3db3ar
Default

This quickly turned from a "why don't you like to go to church" to a disertation on religious life
fr3db3ar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 10:10 AM   #45
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,293
iTrader: (39)
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fr3db3ar View Post
This quickly turned from a "why don't you like to go to church" to a disertation on religious life
x2

I should of just said "I don't believe"

and the church is nothing but a giant corporation preying on the weak minded
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 11:06 AM   #46
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,352
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
to me, after stepping back away from it for a bit, Christianity looks just like a cult...anybody else feel the same way?
I would disagre because Christianity is a belief that does not have common practices or rituals between the sects. For instance if you look at Catholics, Baptists, Luterans, Methodists, Presbeterians, U.C.C. you will find that there is almost no similarity in the way they organize or practice their religion. The only common thing is the basis that Christ died for our sins so we can someday be with God.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 11:12 AM   #47
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

Here, I'll try and steer the conversation back on topic a bit more.


1. The seats. Pews are just plain unfucking comfortable. I have yet to see a single church that had seats comfortable for sitting on for 30 minutes let alone a typical 2-3 hour mass. I realize it costs money, but this leads into my next point.

2. The purpose for being there. CC pretty much covered the first purpose for religion in a general sense. The second reason/purpose I've actually given more thought to as to possibly going back to church myself. Communal support and friendship. Now I realize that you can probably find these sorts of things at other locations and whatnot, but the thought is that fellow parishners might be more understanding and open to listening and talking with you about things that don't necessarily interest them moreso than other venues like bars.

3. Agendas. Everyone on Earth has an agenda and it varies to some wild degrees. Most church leaders I have known have had extreme agendas far different than my beleifs and I simply go elsewhere until there's no more elsewheres to go.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 11:27 AM   #48
Barb
comeback kid
 
Barb's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: royal oak
Posts: 946
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Barb
Default

many things i disagree w/ in the Catholic church / what they preached / said was a sin / overall corruption through the years

difficulty in faith
Barb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 11:27 AM   #49
Paul04TJ
Small, but talented
 
Paul04TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Shelby Twp. MI
Posts: 2,609
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
IMO

I'm glad you prefaced with this disclaimer.

I don't push my thoughts or beliefs on anyone.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, regardless what they might be.

Myself, I'm not weak minded, brainwashed or looking for answers. I'm just living my life the way I want to knowing what I believe.

As Jimi once said
I'm the one that has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to.
Paul04TJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 11:30 AM   #50
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,352
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
I didn't mind the actual "going to church", but I've just done alot of thinking about the whole idea of religion and I'm just not sure about anything anymore. I'm not against church, but I don't like the amount of intolerance from most churches, especially my own, the Catholic church.

Mike, I agree with you about the intolerance of the catholic church. From what I've learned from my in-laws (catholics) there are a LOT of Roman practices that have worked their way into the catholic system that have NO biblical basis. The most disturbing is the notion that you should praise a man (the priest) nearly as high as God, that salvation is somehow tied to a man currently in the church and that outsiders (non-catholics) cannot have communion with Christ.

There are a lot of different churches out there. There are also opportunities to strengthen your faith from radio programs and TV programs. I would hope you don't cut off your nose despite your face. God is MUCH bigger than the organized ROMAN Catholic religion.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:08 PM   #51
Bratworst
..........
 
Bratworst's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-06
Location: MI
Posts: 660
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

God = Imaginary Friend for Grown Ups

So many religions, so many denominations, so many salesman trying to sell why their church and beliefs are the best. Why not stick with the Golden rule " Treat others how you want to be treated" If we all stuck to this, half of the worlds problems would not exist.

I know of so many people who have problems; for example- Neighbors lost job and are 3 months behind on Mortage Payment. Yet they pray to "Ala" or Who ever to bring them fortune. Like Kelly says, get off your ass and make your dreams/wishes come true. If it really did happen, it's called (YOU LUCKY BASTARD) not the work of God or because the planets were aligned just right.

To answer- why waist my time in church when I could be more productive helping my neighbors like they've helped me.

Oh yeah- what Kelly said X2

Last edited by Bratworst; November 9th, 2006 at 12:11 PM.
Bratworst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:13 PM   #52
nixxerRsixxer
Homewrecker
 
nixxerRsixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: humanresources
Posts: 3,280
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to nixxerRsixxer Send a message via AIM to nixxerRsixxer Send a message via Yahoo to nixxerRsixxer
Default

why are so many people in here debating this isnt a thread about debating it is a thread about why you do not like church or like going to church.

to stay on topic.

church does not have anything to offer me. (and to those im sure that will reply and turn my words around.. its not a selfish statement there is just no reason for me to go)
__________________
He had a steady job and watched what he spent.
He'd say I don't believe in payin' no goddamn rent.
I'll squirrel away every goddamn cent
and buy my own damn house in Kalamazoo.
nixxerRsixxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:15 PM   #53
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,945
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandman View Post
Over the span of 46 years i have seen way to much hypocritical activities buy church members .

Condem me for what i do , but when no one is looking they do the same shit .

Things like our local catholic church which begs money to no end yet paid cash for the motel behind the church and are still running it as a motel . Odd they pay no tax .

The people that so claim there love of God yet i doubt 1/2 of them could stand up to me on morals that i have lived by . Ill not be judged by some one who only thinks there better then me .

Many churchs " demand " a percentage of your income . " Demand " ? hardly


Then when all that is said and done i try to think with pure logic . That leaves me clearly seeing evolution as truth .

As my Nephew says ( he is a strong church member ) Uncle it requires a leap of faith . Yep falling off a cliff works best if you " leap " too but its still illogical .
your local assessor is at fault here. church owned property, that is not used consistently with church purposes is taxable, and it should be on the tax rolls.

I have had a very curvy, and very hilly journey on my faith, and confess to still being on somewhat shaky, and questionable ground.

the church we recently (a few months ago) joined, the pastor makes it very clear that there is to be no judgement so long as he has any influence with what is going on. he's not afraid to piss off people, including very generous benefactors of the church.

as he puts it, a hospital is for sick people, and a church is for sinners. to those that avoid church due to the hippocrits, his rebuttal is that he'd rather spend a little time in church with the hippocrits, than burn in hell with them for eternity.

that being said, I understand some of what you said, and have felt it as well.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day, with a quote attributed to Ghandi that got me thinking...

"I like your Christ...
I do not like your Christains...
They are so much not like your Christ... - Ghandi"

I don't know for sure if he really said it, but it speaks volumes about a great many of our world's organized Christain churches...

oh, that church we settled on? it's not officially affiliated with any specific denomination...
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:20 PM   #54
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,945
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post

I grew up catholic, I went to church with my mom (my dad has never been) until I was 15. I even went to catechism for 7 years, and I have read through the bible numerous times. My theories about religion are not made from being one sided. I have spent hundreds of hours in a church.
fixed. it is my firm belief that there is no "the church". I come from a family of engineers, we typically look at things very strongly through the eyes of science, and have to have everything proven to us.

rest assured, I take no insult from someone thinking I'm "weak" because I'm starting down the path of faith. I can't say I can truly identify with those that claim to have had a nirvannic/transcendant moment with god that inspired them to be saved/born again.

no, mine has just been a general low key growing of this idea that there is a higher purpose.

as for your statement about not seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling something it isn't there. scientifically that can be disproven with so very many things... but as was mentioned, far and away off topic from the original thread.
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:38 PM   #55
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,352
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post

as he puts it, a hospital is for sick people, and a church is for sinners. to those that avoid church due to the hippocrits, his rebuttal is that he'd rather spend a little time in church with the hippocrits, than burn in hell with them for eternity.
I like this. Very good.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:44 PM   #56
87'YJ
Jeeps, Journey and Jesus
 
87'YJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,651
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
x2

I should of just said "I don't believe"

and the church is nothing but a giant corporation preying on the weak minded

Its funny, because I actually agree with your statement slighty. Many people in churches are the sick, needy and weak. They need God! However, that doesn't prove or disprove God.

There are also many churches that are complete B.S. I've been to them and I hate them. However, once again, people aren't perfect and because of this, there are bad churches or hypocrytical churches. I've been to some very very good ones as well.

Lastly, and the point that I don't agree with you on, is that people are weak minded if they need religion. I look at some of the most influential people in history like Abe Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Martin Luther King, C.S. Lewis, Blaise Pascall, Isaac Newton and of course Mr. T and I think that we can all agree that none of these people were "weak minded". Most of them were geniuses or world leaders. And they "needed" God.

Food for thought.

Last edited by 87'YJ; November 9th, 2006 at 12:53 PM.
87'YJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 12:57 PM   #57
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

I don't think its necessarily a need for God as much as its a need for having good self esteem and religion is one way to get it.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 01:12 PM   #58
Red Head
()
 
Red Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-27-06
Location: Saginaw
Posts: 794
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Red Head
Default

We are all sinners according to the bible. I don't go to church, if I did I would burst into flames.

Gambling is a sin, yet show me a church that don't have bingo
http://www.gotquestions.org/gambling-sin.html

Tats are pretty popular...sinners
http://www.gotquestions.org/tattoos-sin.html

Swearing, cussing, having a foul mouth....all sins
http://www.gotquestions.org/cussing-swearing.html

do you smoke?? see ya in hell!
http://www.gotquestions.org/smoking-Christian-sin.html


I think that's all I need to say.
Red Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #59
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

wow, you guys are uber talkative! lets try to stay on topic.

I will chime back in soon, but just wanted to note that Bruce DOES go to church, he goes to Bed-side Baptist on sunday mornings. haha

FWIW, I got my own beef with some churches, but I try not to let God's imperfect people taint my opinion of who he is.

I will also share my personal displeasures with the american church, but it is likely to be followed by a challenge. Be back with more later, thanks.

Last edited by Dave Kerwin; November 9th, 2006 at 01:25 PM.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2006, 01:30 PM   #60
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,352
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Head View Post
We are all sinners according to the bible. I don't go to church, if I did I would burst into flames.

Gambling is a sin, yet show me a church that don't have bingo
http://www.gotquestions.org/gambling-sin.html

Tats are pretty popular...sinners
http://www.gotquestions.org/tattoos-sin.html

Swearing, cussing, having a foul mouth....all sins
http://www.gotquestions.org/cussing-swearing.html

do you smoke?? see ya in hell!
http://www.gotquestions.org/smoking-Christian-sin.html


I think that's all I need to say.
OK, but IF we are talking Christianity then you can and do have sin in your life but can be with God in heaven through the sacrifice of Jesus. You see, it is the sin that keeps us from being united with God, not the sum of our positive actions that gets us there. The only way to get beyond the sin is to be washed free from it. So yes, I have a tatoo and have been know to curse, but don't plan on seeing ya in hell.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:

Last edited by amc78cj7; November 9th, 2006 at 01:32 PM.
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:14 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.25754 seconds with 50 queries