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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #1
chadcooper55
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Default Can't get my Howell tbi to run good

Vehicle info
97 tj
Jasper 350 extreme
Th350
Howell tbi with the 670 Holley throttle body that was programmed to the specs from the crate motor
Air gap intake

Symptoms

At idle it acts like it is searching, idles up and down slightly constantly when cold or hot

If you floor it from a stand still it will stall

Backfires when you let off after hard acceleration

It smells like it is running a bit rich


New parts I have installed to try to fix the issue

It had a new hei accel distributor installed by the po so I put a msd cap, rotor, coil and wires

Another new fuel filter

Ac delco spark plugs gapped to .040


The only code I am getting is vss, which I spoke to Howell about and they had forgotten to delete that from the computer. They told me it won't affect anything except a check engine light. I was told by a couple guys out here that with the vss code the motor won't run correctly. I'm too stoopid about this stuff to know which is the correct answer. I can't find any vacuum leaks. Wtf am I missing here??
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:46 PM   #2
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Timing? Any way you can hook up and look at the live engine data while running not just get the codes?
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Timing? Any way you can hook up and look at the live engine data while running not just get the codes?
I didn't have a timing light out here so my neighbor set it for me a while back with his. I just bought one so I will be checking it again tonight. I also picked up some ngk yr5 7052 plugs to replace the ac delcos. I did the plugs a month ago and the rest of the ignition last week so I figured ill do plugs again so it is all new. I have no way of seeing the live feed while the motor is running. The guy at napa gave me a guy in Denver's name and number that specializes in fuel injection. If I can't I figure it out I will talk to him. Ric Navarro at tb1 connection.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #4
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Thoughts on the vss? Will that effect it?
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:57 PM   #5
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The searching behavior at idle is throwing me for a loop.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #6
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Dont think vss will effect it. I have a older howell tbi and it has the wire to unplug to set the timing not sure if yours has that but check.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 08:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsmotorsports View Post
Dont think vss will effect it. I have a older howell tbi and it has the wire to unplug to set the timing not sure if yours has that but check.
Where is the wire?
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Old October 10th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #8
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Mine is next to the distributor. I think purple wire single connector in line
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Old October 10th, 2013, 08:22 PM   #9
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I'm not seeing anything like that. I looked through all the instructions that came with the kit and it says nothing about timing. With the vaccum advance distributor I need to disconnect and plug the vac line, correct?
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:10 PM   #10
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I would still check the timing but i was thinking of my set up that is the same as a gm tbi with computer controlled timing.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #11
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Yes unplug and cap vac line to time
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Old October 10th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #12
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Stuck injector? To much fuel pressure? Tty setting the timing with a vacuum gage.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 10:01 PM   #13
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Check fuel press
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Old October 10th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #14
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need to turn off VSS, that is your idle problem. disconnect the map sensor and if the idle is fixed, you need to get the vss programmed out. if not, its fuel pressure, timing, or a vacuum leak.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 10:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerebowtie View Post
need to turn off VSS, that is your idle problem. disconnect the map sensor and if the idle is fixed, you need to get the vss programmed out. if not, its fuel pressure, timing, or a vacuum leak.
I would agree.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 08:45 AM   #16
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Well I believe that I am a complete rahtard.......

My neighbor oh is a mechanic walked over last night when I was working on the jeep. I was setting the timing and he asked about he specs on the cam so we could get the timing as good as possible. I brought up the email with all the engine specs on it that I had sent to Howell when I ordered the kit. He looks at me and sacked if I was sure those were the right specs. The specs had vortec heads and my motor has the old style heads. The previous owner had sent me that Link. I didn't pay attention to where it said at the bottom of the page "non vortec version available" I know that vortec heads have the valve cover bolts through the top of the covers, I just never thought about it. I hope this solves the problem!

I am gong to pull the comp and send it to Howell and have them program it for old style heads and get rid of the vss while they are at it. I think that would explain my issues with running rich and backfiring after letting off the throttle. It would also explain why it dies when you floor it. I think the fact that I am at 5,000 feet probably doesn't help either.

I also checked my fuel pressure and my return line is flowing freely. We took the timing from 4* to 20* and everything in between. It didn't change the issues.

I'll report back after talking to Howell when they open.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 08:46 AM   #17
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http://www.jasperengines.com/stock-p...ce-engines.php

The engine specs.

I remember them asking about vortec heads and I said yes because it was fresh in my head from looking at the spec sheet. I'm dumb...
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Old October 11th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #18
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What reading did you have on your fuel pressure check?

Also make sure your electrical system is charging well at idle. I had issues with the Howell TBI on my 258, because I was using the stock alternator, which doesn't put out a good charge at idle. Switched to a GM from fuel inejcted design and it helped. I never liked that Howel TBI, though, could never get it reliable. New ignition, new injectors, etc...

You should be able to see a nice cone of fuel spray from each injector if you look into the throttle body when its running. Make sure its a nice even cone for each.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 11:27 AM   #19
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Default Can't get my Howell tbi to run good

Right around 30 psi at the inlet which is what it said it is supposed to be. The return line is flowing free also. I took my timing light and looked at the spray pattern and it looks great. Troy from Howell is on vacation until next week and I'm not a big fan if the rest of the guys that I have talked to from there. They are fairly rude and unwilling to help. I have been talking to the guy out here from tb1connection in Denver about it and I sent him the same spec sheet I sent Howell. He told me that there wasn't enough info on the cam in that sheet for him to be able to program correctly. I talked to jasper and they can't give me the exact info without the build number. They said there should be a sticker on the block with that number. I will check after work. The motor has a newer 1 wire gm alternator on it. I will check the exact voltage when I get home. What is the magic number I should have for voltage?

I'm really close to putting a 6.0 in this damn thing when I get home. I've been dicking with this stuff for 3 months. I'm getting sick of it.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
Right around 30 psi at the inlet which is what it said it is supposed to be. The return line is flowing free also. I took my timing light and looked at the spray pattern and it looks great. Troy from Howell is on vacation until next week and I'm not a big fan if the rest of the guys that I have talked to from there. They are fairly rude and unwilling to help. I have been talking to the guy out here from tb1connection in Denver about it and I sent him the same spec sheet I sent Howell. He told me that there wasn't enough info on the cam in that sheet for him to be able to program correctly. I talked to jasper and they can't give me the exact info without the build number. They said there should be a sticker on the block with that number. I will check after work. The motor has a newer 1 wire gm alternator on it. I will check the exact voltage when I get home. What is the magic number I should have for voltage?

I'm really close to putting a 6.0 in this damn thing when I get home. I've been dicking with this stuff for 3 months. I'm getting sick of it.
TBI usually runs at 10-12 psi or so, I think. How to do the plugs look? Wet?

Last edited by Haggar; October 11th, 2013 at 01:21 PM.
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