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Old October 8th, 2013, 08:39 AM   #41
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No. I want them to honor checks already written, commitments already made, and not use routine spending bills to extort changes to laws already passed.
You mean the law that Obama has already changed numerous times since it's enactment? Like the time he changed it so big businesses and his union buddies don't have to abide by the law, even though he makes sure you and I have to no matter what? Is that the law you are talking about?

And I wouldn't call it extortion when the GOP is trying to make it so you and I get the same privlidge of opting out of Obamacare that the unions and businesses get. I guess "fairness" only counts when it's a rich VS poor thing. When it comes to Obamacare it doesn't apply, apparently.

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Old October 8th, 2013, 08:58 AM   #42
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The assertion that the house should rubber stamp the ACA is ludicrous . The senate is in fact remiss in their duties by not producing a budget and want to fund our government by continuing resolution.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:04 AM   #43
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The assertion that the house should rubber stamp the ACA is ludicrous . The senate is in fact remiss in their duties by not producing a budget and want to fund our government by continuing resolution.
ACA is already signed sealed and delivered. No more stamps needed.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:06 AM   #44
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You mean the law that Obama has already changed numerous times since it's enactment? Like the time he changed it so big businesses and his union buddies don't have to abide by the law, even though he makes sure you and I have to no matter what? Is that the law you are talking about?

And I wouldn't call it extortion when the GOP is trying to make it so you and I get the same privlidge of opting out of Obamacare that the unions and businesses get. I guess "fairness" only counts when it's a rich VS poor thing. When it comes to Obamacare it doesn't apply, apparently.
The "privlidge of opting out", actually a temporary grandfathering of plans already in force, was written into the original law, not a change to it.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #45
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What is your problem with Republicans trying to make changes (that will benefit all of us) to a disastrous bill? You don't seem to have nearly the same problem with the President and his Administration doing the same with existing laws to suit their agenda. Immigration enforcement, Obamacare exemptions to his buddies, etc.
My problem is with the concept of legislation by extortion. Even if it was the Democrats doing it, and even if it was for a cause I supported, I would be opposed to the method.

Attaching controversial riders to routine and necessary bills and daring the other side to vote it down or veto it is a stupid way to decide on laws. It sets a bad precedent. It means that no vote is ever routine, nothing is important enough to be safe from putting a rider on it and daring a veto.


The have had 3 years to propose changes to ACA. Rather than coming up with some changes that might address some of ACA's shortcomings they wait until, quite literally, the eve of it's implementation, and just take some pot shots at it hoping to somehow ding parts of it. And just to be sure they went to the brink some idiot gets up and waste a day that could have been used for discussions and reads Dr Seuss. The way the Republicans are acting reminds be of a child having a temper tantrum and refusing to do his chores until the entire family agrees to change how the household is run.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:56 AM   #46
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I don't care anymore.

I blame Bruce 100% for this shut down. Thanks Bruce.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #47
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My problem is with the concept of legislation by extortion. Even if it was the Democrats doing it, and even if it was for a cause I supported, I would be opposed to the method.

Attaching controversial riders to routine and necessary bills and daring the other side to vote it down or veto it is a stupid way to decide on laws. It sets a bad precedent. It means that no vote is ever routine, nothing is important enough to be safe from putting a rider on it and daring a veto.


The have had 3 years to propose changes to ACA. Rather than coming up with some changes that might address some of ACA's shortcomings they wait until, quite literally, the eve of it's implementation, and just take some pot shots at it hoping to somehow ding parts of it. And just to be sure they went to the brink some idiot gets up and waste a day that could have been used for discussions and reads Dr Seuss. The way the Republicans are acting reminds be of a child having a temper tantrum and refusing to do his chores until the entire family agrees to change how the household is run.
To be fair' both sides are exhibiting a large amount of infantile behavior.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #48
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To be fair' both sides are exhibiting a large amount of infantile behavior.

Agreed so fire both sides and create a non-party based government!!!! Or limit political parties to an even amount of seats.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 11:39 AM   #49
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I don't care anymore.

I blame Bruce 100% for this shut down. Thanks Bruce.
It's OK, I was married once, I remember how if feels to be blamed for everything.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #50
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Old October 8th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #51
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I support the strong stand the rep's are taking. Shame on the dem's for not OK'ing some of the smaller bills just like what has been done in the past. The refusal to even talk is shameful.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
My problem is with the concept of legislation by extortion. Even if it was the Democrats doing it, and even if it was for a cause I supported, I would be opposed to the method.

Attaching controversial riders to routine and necessary bills and daring the other side to vote it down or veto it is a stupid way to decide on laws. It sets a bad precedent. It means that no vote is ever routine, nothing is important enough to be safe from putting a rider on it and daring a veto.


The have had 3 years to propose changes to ACA. Rather than coming up with some changes that might address some of ACA's shortcomings they wait until, quite literally, the eve of it's implementation, and just take some pot shots at it hoping to somehow ding parts of it. And just to be sure they went to the brink some idiot gets up and waste a day that could have been used for discussions and reads Dr Seuss. The way the Republicans are acting reminds be of a child having a temper tantrum and refusing to do his chores until the entire family agrees to change how the household is run.
This is exactly the model that the have used for decades. There is NEVER a simple bill to deal with one issue. It is always linked to many different issues that wont agree with, then they throw a fit about not compromising. Well, the have been compromising way to long. Why should they sign off on a bill they don't agree with?
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Old October 9th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #53
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ACA is already signed sealed and delivered. No more stamps needed.
The only problem with this is it was passed under cloture, the senate passed it without seating the republican senator that would have kept it from passing. Harry Reid held the vote before seating the "new" senator from Massachusetts when the people of MA elected him to take the seat of the dead Ed Kennedy.
Knowing how his vote would be cast and not having enough votes if the senator was seated, Dirty Harry pushed this through because his side wants to be Santa Claus and control 1/6th of the US economy.

And as a side note about the ACA, the delay for business and unions was not written into the bill, the President was the person to decide to allow a 1 year delay in the implementation for business. That is not constitutional, he does not have the ability to decide which facets of a law are or are not implemented.
Another reason to void the ACA and begin again. The original budget for implementation of the website for the ACA was 94 million. At this moment the current cost has surpassed 600 Million and it still doesn't work. If this is not a prime example for the major down sizing of government there is none.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
My problem is with the concept of legislation by extortion. Even if it was the Democrats doing it, and even if it was for a cause I supported, I would be opposed to the method.

Attaching controversial riders to routine and necessary bills and daring the other side to vote it down or veto it is a stupid way to decide on laws. It sets a bad precedent. It means that no vote is ever routine, nothing is important enough to be safe from putting a rider on it and daring a veto.


The have had 3 years to propose changes to ACA. Rather than coming up with some changes that might address some of ACA's shortcomings they wait until, quite literally, the eve of it's implementation, and just take some pot shots at it hoping to somehow ding parts of it. And just to be sure they went to the brink some idiot gets up and waste a day that could have been used for discussions and reads Dr Seuss. The way the Republicans are acting reminds be of a child having a temper tantrum and refusing to do his chores until the entire family agrees to change how the household is run.
I would place a pretty large wager that the Repubs have tried to propose changes to the ACA over the last three years. Seems, though, unless you are the President, there is no way to change it because no one will listen.

That being said... Been thinking about this for the past few days, just can not find a good way to express it. But Ill try...

It is the Houses responsibility to fund or defund "things." We are also approaching the debt ceiling, again. Wouldn't it be irresponsible to not defund something that will require us to borrow even more money to pay for? Just because the Senate passed it, and the President signed it, doesnt make it a good idea. The "check and balance" of the House holding the wallet is working as it should.

I wish they would be more liberal with that power.

As for the notion that the ACA is the "Law of the Land," so is immigration, border enforcement and voting laws. All three of which the Obama admin has specifically turned a blind eye to, and quite literally.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 04:23 AM   #55
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A lot of things have been the "law of the land" over the years that are now not. Just because it was passed by the legislature (in this case improperly, any appropriations must originate in the house) and upheld by the SCOTUS does not make it a good law. Prohibition and slavery issues are two big examples.

At the time of the vote on the ACA, the public polling was roughly 60% against it.

There are better ways to deal with 15% of the population not having insurance, that number is even less when you take out the 18 to 25 year olds that don't want insurance and the people who are rich enough to self insure. We didn't need to destroy it for the remaining 85% of us with a 2500 page monstrosity that no one can understand or comply with.

The ACA has never been about health care, from it's conception a hundred years ago it has always been about control.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 06:28 AM   #56
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More terrorism support by brewmenn
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:33 AM   #57
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The Republicans have tried changing ACA over the last three years. Vote after vote. It was always shut down in the senate. Now they're going in with leverage and all hell breaks loose.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 02:27 PM   #58
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Repuplicans getting soft and lifting the debt ceiling without spending cuts, temperarily but still.

PS spelled wrong on purpose.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #59
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Repuplicans getting soft and lifting the debt ceiling without spending cuts, temperarily but still.

PS spelled wrong on purpose.
There should NEVER be another debt ceiling increase EVER AGAIN.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #60
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There should NEVER be another debt ceiling increase EVER AGAIN.
I can agree with this. We need to control spending. It will hurt the ones that are dependent on it but with a good economy and plenty of jobs that will be a more permanent fix than the band aid that the government has been trying to do for decades now.
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