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Old October 4th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #41
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I ride north of 150 miles a week..... almost all on roads.

I act like a car, but I'm also doing 20-25 mph on streets where the limit is 25 -40. And off to the side to allow passing unless I'm at an intersection trying to turn or something.

Some roads/areas are better than others so you try to ride those vs roads that are not as safe.

Lastly, for someone like myself, riding on a "bike path" is more dangerous than the road. On a flat path without stopping every block, Its not unheard of to get up to 28-30 mph. The average person walks at 3mph, then you add in dogs and what not, and you have a more dangerous situation than me doing 5 mph under the limit.

Moral of the story? Its easy to sit behind a computer and say things like "if a biker rides on the road he deserves to get hit" blah blah blah, but do people actually realize they are justifying killing another human being because they slowed them down by 30 seconds?

Society makes me sick most of the time.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #42
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I tolerate road bicyclists the same as cars that drive half the speed limit... I don't get road rage or try to run you off the road but to every other motorist you are an inconvenience just sayin.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
It's a speed limit, not a minimum.

257.676b Interference with normal flow of vehicular or pedestrian traffic prohibited; exception; violation as civil infraction.
Sec. 676b.

(1) A person, without authority, shall not block, obstruct, impede, or otherwise interfere with the normal flow of vehicular or pedestrian traffic upon a public street or highway in this state, by means of a barricade, object, or device, or with his or her person. This section shall not apply to persons maintaining, rearranging, or constructing public utility facilities in or adjacent to a street or highway.

(2) A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.



traveling 20 mph in a 55 mph zone where people can't pass you?
sounds like impeding traffic to me.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
I ride north of 150 miles a week..... almost all on roads.

I act like a car, but I'm also doing 20-25 mph on streets where the limit is 25 -40. And off to the side to allow passing unless I'm at an intersection trying to turn or something.

Some roads/areas are better than others so you try to ride those vs roads that are not as safe.

Lastly, for someone like myself, riding on a "bike path" is more dangerous than the road. On a flat path without stopping every block, Its not unheard of to get up to 28-30 mph. The average person walks at 3mph, then you add in dogs and what not, and you have a more dangerous situation than me doing 5 mph under the limit.

Moral of the story? Its easy to sit behind a computer and say things like "if a biker rides on the road he deserves to get hit" blah blah blah, but do people actually realize they are justifying killing another human being because they slowed them down by 30 seconds?

Society makes me sick most of the time.
20-25 in a 40 isn't bad, i can see where stopping every couple blocks would get annoying.


also, i almost hit a guy on a bicycle the other day because he ran a stop sign where a trail crossed a road.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #45
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20-25 in a 40 isn't bad, i can see where stopping every couple blocks would get annoying.


also, i almost hit a guy on a bicycle the other day because he ran a stop sign where a trail crossed a road.
28 mile and Van Dyke is bad for this, it's hard to see cyclists that are coming down the trail that is about 20 feet from the road. I've almost nailed a few there. (my wife has a client by 28/Mound)
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Old October 4th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #46
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I think there are more cyclists that are aware of the road laws and abide by them then there are asshat cyclists. The bad thing is you don't tend to see the people tha are not being assbags you only see the assbags. I drive a garbage truck and deal with cyclists all the time at all hours of the day. If the cyclists are aware of there surroundings and give traffic room to pass when it's safe and also STOP for stop signs this would not be as big of a deal.

There are assbags on both sides of this story thou. People in cars that are impatient and cyclists that think they own the road.

Why can't we all just get along?
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Old October 4th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
I ride north of 150 miles a week..... almost all on roads.

I act like a car, but I'm also doing 20-25 mph on streets where the limit is 25 -40. And off to the side to allow passing unless I'm at an intersection trying to turn or something.

Some roads/areas are better than others so you try to ride those vs roads that are not as safe.

Lastly, for someone like myself, riding on a "bike path" is more dangerous than the road. On a flat path without stopping every block, Its not unheard of to get up to 28-30 mph. The average person walks at 3mph, then you add in dogs and what not, and you have a more dangerous situation than me doing 5 mph under the limit.

Moral of the story? Its easy to sit behind a computer and say things like "if a biker rides on the road he deserves to get hit" blah blah blah, but do people actually realize they are justifying killing another human being because they slowed them down by 30 seconds?

Society makes me sick most of the time.
You put it alot better then I did.

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Originally Posted by 14muddn View Post
I tolerate road bicyclists the same as cars that drive half the speed limit... I don't get road rage or try to run you off the road but to every other motorist you are an inconvenience just sayin.
An inconvenience of 20 seconds? Is that really that hard to bare?

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Originally Posted by skife View Post
257.676b Interference with normal flow of vehicular or pedestrian traffic prohibited; exception; violation as civil infraction.
Sec. 676b.

(1) A person, without authority, shall not block, obstruct, impede, or otherwise interfere with the normal flow of vehicular or pedestrian traffic upon a public street or highway in this state, by means of a barricade, object, or device, or with his or her person. This section shall not apply to persons maintaining, rearranging, or constructing public utility facilities in or adjacent to a street or highway.

(2) A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.



traveling 20 mph in a 55 mph zone where people can't pass you?
sounds like impeding traffic to me.
With your thinking, farm equipment wouldn't be able to use roads either. Nor pedestrians.

Quote:
257.660a Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding close to right-hand curb or edge of roadway; exceptions.A person operating a bicycle upon a highway or street at less than the existing speed of traffic shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except as follows:
(a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

(b) When preparing to turn left.

(c) When conditions make the right-hand edge of the roadway unsafe or reasonably unusable by bicycles, including, but not limited to, surface hazards, an uneven roadway surface, drain openings, debris, parked or moving vehicles or bicycles, pedestrians, animals, or other obstacles, or if the lane is too narrow to permit a vehicle to safely overtake and pass a bicycle.

(d) When operating a bicycle in a lane in which the traffic is turning right but the individual intends to go straight through the intersection.

(e) When operating a bicycle upon a 1-way highway or street that has 2 or more marked traffic lanes, in which case the individual may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.

The highlighted red part was interesting to me.

M-bike.org has alot of laws pertaining to bicycles.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 08:47 AM   #48
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“But, you ride too far out in the lane, you’re supposed to ride single file, all the way to the right. You’re an asshole!”

Legally, you’re wrong (in Michigan at least). Let’s leave the law out of this though. Go ahead and see above and know that I’d rather you be annoyed than me be dead. You’d rather that too, because this way you don’t have to go home and tell your kids they can’t have a swimming pool because you paralyzed a cyclist from the waist down. Riding further out in the lane forces you to slow down and wait for traffic to clear to pass me. You’re less likely to hit me on purpose than because you drive like an inconsiderate bag of dicks.
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257.660a Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding close to right-hand curb or edge of roadway; exceptions.A person operating a bicycle upon a highway or street at less than the existing speed of traffic shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except as follows:
(a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

(b) When preparing to turn left.

(c) When conditions make the right-hand edge of the roadway unsafe or reasonably unusable by bicycles, including, but not limited to, surface hazards, an uneven roadway surface, drain openings, debris, parked or moving vehicles or bicycles, pedestrians, animals, or other obstacles, or if the lane is too narrow to permit a vehicle to safely overtake and pass a bicycle.

(d) When operating a bicycle in a lane in which the traffic is turning right but the individual intends to go straight through the intersection.

(e) When operating a bicycle upon a 1-way highway or street that has 2 or more marked traffic lanes, in which case the individual may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
Leave the law out of it?
It is the law to not ride down the middle of the road.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 09:55 AM   #49
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Let's add the law of physics
Car big > little bicyclists

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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #50
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Leave the law out of it?
It is the law to not ride down the middle of the road.
Actually, Per what I highlighted, we can ride out in the middle of the lane if we feel there is not enough room for you to overtake us safely. Which is what this guys point was. He's going to make sure you have enough space (IE you can get in the other lane) before you can pass him. Which, IMO, is completely logical and just being defensive.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #51
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Actually, Per what I highlighted, we can ride out in the middle of the lane if we feel there is not enough room for you to overtake us safely. Which is what this guys point was. He's going to make sure you have enough space (IE you can get in the other lane) before you can pass him. Which, IMO, is completely logical and just being defensive.
if there isn't enough room to overtake a cyclist and they ride in the middle of the right lane doing 20mph in a 55mph zone, that is obstructing the flow of traffic.


farm implements are guilty of impeding traffic. Most try to take back roads unless there isn't another route. also, farmers are working, you're the douchebag in spandex that prevents people from getting to work on time.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:41 AM   #52
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if there isn't enough room to overtake a cyclist and they ride in the middle of the right lane doing 20mph in a 55mph zone, that is obstructing the flow of traffic.


farm implements are guilty of impeding traffic. Most try to take back roads unless there isn't another route. also, farmers are working, you're the douchebag in spandex that prevents people from getting to work on time.
I only ride in the middle of the LANE if I feel you are going to try and pass me and there isn't enough space for you to do so. Otherwise, I stay to the right as far as possible. I also take mostly back roads (when I can) and the majority of my riding is cyclo-commuting. So I'm on my way to work.

It's also your responsibility as a safe driver to make sure you are a safe distance from the vehicle you are overtaking. We'd be 'impeding the flow of traffic' either way if people were to be responsible and make sure they are leaving that safe space to pass. Wouldn't matter if they were in the middle of the lane, all the way to the left, or all the way to the right; You, as a 'responsible driver', should be treating them as any other vehicle and only passing when there is no oncoming traffic and you are in a passing zone. By passing to closely you're the only one (out of the two of us) that is breaking the law.

Also, I want to perfectly clear on this, If you leave for work with just enough time to get there assuming nothing will slow you down, it's your own damn fault for being late. Don't blame the people who are trying to save some money and get in better shape while doing so.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #53
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I only ride in the middle of the LANE if I feel you are going to try and pass me and there isn't enough space for you to do so. Otherwise, I stay to the right as far as possible. I also take mostly back roads (when I can) and the majority of my riding is cyclo-commuting. So I'm on my way to work.

It's also your responsibility as a safe driver to make sure you are a safe distance from the vehicle you are overtaking. We'd be 'impeding the flow of traffic' either way if people were to be responsible and make sure they are leaving that safe space to pass. Wouldn't matter if they were in the middle of the lane, all the way to the left, or all the way to the right; You, as a 'responsible driver', should be treating them as any other vehicle and only passing when there is no oncoming traffic and you are in a passing zone. By passing to closely you're the only one (out of the two of us) that is breaking the law.

Also, I want to perfectly clear on this, If you leave for work with just enough time to get there assuming nothing will slow you down, it's your own damn fault for being late. Don't blame the people who are trying to save some money and get in better shape while doing so.
i feel like you're probably a responsible rider. I'm pissed at the guys that ride 30mph less than the speed limit on tight winding roads with lots of hills, i've had to slam on my breaks countless times to avoid hitting somebody on a bike.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #54
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I know how to fix this debate. Bicyclists should open carry. This will make motorist think twice about passing a bicyclist illegally and this will give bicyclist an even better reason to be douche bags!

Now shower me with all your casino cash!!!
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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:54 AM   #55
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I know how to fix this debate. Bicyclists should open carry. This will make motorist think twice about passing a bicyclist illegally and this will give bicyclist an even better reason to be douche bags!

Now shower me with all your casino cash!!!
I believe they will shower you with gold....
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Old October 5th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #56
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i feel like you're probably a responsible rider. I'm pissed at the guys that ride 30mph less than the speed limit on tight winding roads with lots of hills, i've had to slam on my breaks countless times to avoid hitting somebody on a bike.
Those are the best kinds of roads to ride on!

You know how many times I've had to slam on my brakes on my bike because a car came out of thier driveway and didn't see me?
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Old October 5th, 2013, 12:05 PM   #57
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I know how to fix this debate...
force teachers to cycle-commute? When they get run over it solves two problems!

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Old October 5th, 2013, 12:13 PM   #58
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Those are the best kinds of roads to ride on!

You know how many times I've had to slam on my brakes on my bike because a car came out of thier driveway and didn't see me?
i'd bet.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 01:18 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
Moral of the story? Its easy to sit behind a computer and say things like "if a biker rides on the road he deserves to get hit" blah blah blah, but do people actually realize they are justifying killing another human being because they slowed them down by 30 seconds?

Society makes me sick most of the time.
I would guess there are far more automobile to automobile accidents in any given year than automobile to bicycle accidents. The point is though, accidents occur on the road. The difference is that if you are on a bicycle you are more likely to be seriously injured or killed. It's your choice to ride the bicycle, but know the risks you're taking and quit trying to make it sound like automobiles have it out for bicyclists.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #60
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An inconvenience of 20 seconds? Is that really that hard to bare?
Like I said it's just an annoyance... Like being downwind of a fart. Except when you slow a line of cars on many days you start wasting a lot of peoples time.

Don't get me wrong, I respect people excercising or biking for a hobby I have hobbies too. But I do them in a manner that doesn't inconvenience others.
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