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Old September 4th, 2013, 06:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman View Post
I have the following part that I am trying to repair. I have tacked it together for alignment. I have read that I need to use a high nickel rod and use an arc welder. I plan to notch out the break and weld one side, then then notch out the other side and weld it.

Reasonable plan?

-tim
With those pictures you have shown, the first thing I would do is grind all that weld out of there completely. Tacking them together was not smart. Then grind the parts so they either meet like two chisels or two center punches. This will give you the most surface area for the filler metal to adhere to.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 10:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by knaffie View Post
Brazing is the easiest and best way to repair cast iron when high heat during use isn't an issue. Pretty much zero chance of it cracking. No preheat. No postheat. No short welds. No peening. It just works.

The lack of tensile strength is not an issue most of the time. Only when the parent material is very high strength (not all "cast iron" is created equal) and actually sees that type of load in use.

So many people think that brazing is not as strong as steel. One of our many assignments I did in school was to braze steel parts together then put them through a guided bend tests and tensile pull tests. If the brazing and prep were done correctly, the steel fractured and the brazed filler material held. I'm not saying that will be the case with high strength alloys, but with mild steel it is.
I would agree with you in many instances but personally I would weld this part as long as you are a competent welder. It is very easy to preheat and roll around while welding. Afterwards the slow cool down is easy as well. With arc welding and peening if done properly it will look like it was never repaired. It also depends on quality of the cast. Some of the old tracker parts that I have repaired have been a very very high quality that has welded very easily. If is is very dirt, pourus sp? Metal I would agree with the brazing. If I brazed it I would cut the fit back apart and drill and tap both sides and put a piece of threaded rod in to assist in lineup. That way you added a little strength and you can bend it before you start brazing while it is mocked up to make it fit together like it is supposed to. I would also sharpen the ends like a pencil like knaffie described.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 10:37 AM   #23
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I've successfully welded cast iron using er70s-6 wire. I always preheat to at least 600 degrees and I only weld and inch or so at a time. I immediately take a center punch to my weld and stress relieve it (all while maintaining the 600 degree minimum). My next bead is dropped at the opposite end of the part that I had just welded and I slowly work my ends together. After welding and stress relieving, I cool the part slowly over a period of hours.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 11:35 AM   #24
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I've successfully welded cast iron using er70s-6 wire. I always preheat to at least 600 degrees and I only weld and inch or so at a time. I immediately take a center punch to my weld and stress relieve it (all while maintaining the 600 degree minimum). My next bead is dropped at the opposite end of the part that I had just welded and I slowly work my ends together. After welding and stress relieving, I cool the part slowly over a period of hours.
Rolling the dice using that wire. That might work sometimes, and won't work others. Material is the biggest you variable that you don't know and can't control.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #25
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Lot's of great advice here. Thanks!

Clearly I am in over my head with this. While I have welded a bit, mostly sheet metal and grader blades to loader buckets.

When I tacked it together, It took quite a while as I only welded for a few seconds at a time, and it didn't get very warm.

I don't see this part getting much load or heat. It's a clutch pedal. It broke once before when a piece of firewood got between the ground and the pedal. I had someone weld it, but don't know how he did it, and he is no longer in the area, but I think he arc welded it and built up a donut around the break with very little penetration into the break.

It broke again pushing firewood, (this time once fixed I'll add a skid plate).

I like the idea of drilling and tapping (or maybe even pining) the two parts together. and then welding or brazing it.

-tim
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Old September 4th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #26
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With that said I am with knaffie on brazing it. The fact that it was hack welded once already means that there could be a bunch of stress cracks. Braze would be the safer bet in my opinion.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #27
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I can't give any technical advice but I have this observation. I have been in stamping plants where large cast stamping press frames have cracked. Like machines rated at 1000 tons. The repair............ brazing.
That's all I got.

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I don't see this part getting much load
It broke once before

It broke again
-tim
Seems to me it gets enough load to break. Therefore, a good, proper repair is in order.
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Last edited by whiterhino; September 5th, 2013 at 04:54 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 05:02 AM   #28
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That's because its nearly impossible to properly preheat, weld, and postheat something as large as a press frame. Not to mention the potential replacement cost and downtime if it were to crack after the repair and ruin the whole frame. Brazing is pretty much fool proof as long as your technique is solid.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 05:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knaffie View Post
That's because its nearly impossible to properly preheat, weld, and postheat something as large as a press frame. Not to mention the potential replacement cost and downtime if it were to crack after the repair and ruin the whole frame. Brazing is pretty much fool proof as long as your technique is solid.
That makes perfect sense. But the follow up is that it works under extreme load conditions.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #30
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This is how I have always welded cast. I have never Brazed before.

Grind the area to be welded
Get the part to a dark cherry color (not bright red) all around the area to be welded
Use High Nickle rod
Run a small bead on one side then the opposite side
Place in Kitty liter until it cools 1.5 to 2 hours for a part this size or until you can touch it without feeling a difference in temp.
Repeat until part is welded fully


If it was a easy to find part I would probably just replace it. I had a clutch pedal break before sitting at a light. Broke just under the factory upper welds having the entire arm fall onto the floor and required a tow.

That won't happen again.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #31
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Thanks for all the advice.

I ended up grinding it down to 25% of the original diameter, heated, arc welded with high nickel rod, peened it, let it cool, repeat until I built it back up. I then cut a piece of 1" angle iron and headed and nickel welded that over the repair.

Pictures of the repair, be nice.

Thanks again!

-tim
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Old September 8th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #32
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Hope it holds. Should have just dropped it off at a local welding shop and paid the $25.

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Old September 8th, 2013, 08:08 PM   #33
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bootyfab worthy.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #34
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I like it lol
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Old September 8th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #35
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Wow....
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Old September 8th, 2013, 09:23 PM   #36
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A baby kitten has just committed suicide
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Old September 9th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knaffie View Post
Hope it holds. Should have just dropped it off at a local welding shop and paid the $25.
I would have gladly paid $25 for a pro to fix it, I couldn't find anyone to fix it.


Quote:
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bootyfab worthy.
Thanks. I had to google that!

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Originally Posted by bigbchevy View Post
I like it lol
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
Wow....
The angle iron was too much? I should have taken a picture before I put that on. It "looked" like the unbroken part.

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A baby kitten has just committed suicide
WTF does this mean?

Thanks all!

-tim
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Old September 9th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #38
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It wasn't so much the angle iron, it was the welds holding the angle iron on.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
It wasn't so much the angle iron, it was the welds holding the angle iron on.
I should have ground them smooth. I was having a hell of a time with the nickel rod on the mild steel.

-tim
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