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Old August 21st, 2013, 08:08 PM   #101
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That wasn't enough evidence.

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Old August 21st, 2013, 08:37 PM   #102
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I would say that atheism is simply the default position on the topic of religion for a skeptic.
I think being skeptical or valuing empirical evidence aligns itself more with agnosticism. Atheism comes across more rigid, as having already taken the stance of no such thing as religion. Or maybe I'm splitting hairs and people consider it one and the same.

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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:42 PM   #103
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I think being skeptical or valuing empirical evidence aligns itself more with agnosticism. Atheism comes across more rigid, as having already taken the stance of no such thing as religion. Or maybe I'm splitting hairs and people consider it one and the same.
Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive. Atheism/theism adresses what you believe. Agnosticism/Gnosticism adresses what you know. I don't know that a god exists, therefore I'm an agnostic. I also don't actively believe in any god proposition , therefore I'm an atheist. I personally don't think anyone can know that a god exists which would make everyone an agnostic, therefore the label of atheist is all that's neccessary.

I think that you think that atheism is a positive belief that no gods exist(strong atheism), but can actually be just lacking a belief in gods. That is not to say not to say that people do not positively believe that there are no gods, but it isn't a requirement for the label.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:44 PM   #104
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I think being skeptical or valuing empirical evidence aligns itself more with agnosticism. Atheism comes across more rigid, as having already taken the stance of no such thing as religion. Or maybe I'm splitting hairs and people consider it one and the same.
I agree with this view.

In one important way I think Atheism shares one thing with most (maybe all) religions. It requires the belief in something that can not be proven. In this case, the nonexistence of god(s). From a logical standpoint you can not prove that gods don't exist, especially when you add in the possibility of "things" existing outside of this universe. Even if we could prove beyond all doubt that all the scientific theories are correct and we know how we came into existence without the input of any gods, it would not be prove that gods don't exist.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:45 PM   #105
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The best thing is apatheism. It basically means you don't care if there is a god or not. Best description I fall into. If there was a god, I would not change the way I live my life one bit.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:50 PM   #106
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I think being skeptical or valuing empirical evidence aligns itself more with agnosticism. Atheism comes across more rigid, as having already taken the stance of no such thing as religion. Or maybe I'm splitting hairs and people consider it one and the same.
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I agree with this view.

In one important way I think Atheism shares one thing with most (maybe all) religions. It requires the belief in something that can not be proven. In this case, the nonexistence of god(s). From a logical standpoint you can not prove that gods don't exist, especially when you add in the possibility of "things" existing outside of this universe. Even if we could prove beyond all doubt that all the scientific theories are correct and we know how we came into existence without the input of any gods, it would not be prove that gods don't exist.
I disagree, Bruce, for the reasons I listed above. I think we're on the same page, just having an issue with the jargon.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:52 PM   #107
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The best thing is apatheism. It basically means you don't care if there is a god or not. Best description I fall into. If there was a god, I would not change the way I live my life one bit.
When He reveals Himself to you, you will want to change the way you live your life and it will be only to please Him. You will not want to be the person you are now.
I was that person once and I could not go back to who I used to be.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:56 PM   #108
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When He reveals Himself to you, you will want to change the way you live your life and it will be only to please Him. You will not want to be the person you are now.
I was that person once and I could not go back to who I used to be.
I can't wait!
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Old August 21st, 2013, 09:59 PM   #109
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I can't wait!
You're going to have to.
See He is a gentleman and will only wait to be invited. He will not intrude if you don't want Him in your life. Your posts make it quite clear where you stand..... so you'll be waiting awhile.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:00 PM   #110
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When He reveals Himself to you, you will want to change the way you live your life and it will be only to please Him. You will not want to be the person you are now.
I was that person once and I could not go back to who I used to be.
I won't hold my breath.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:05 PM   #111
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I disagree, Bruce, for the reasons I listed above. I think we're on the same page, just having an issue with the jargon.
Yes, we debating the definition of words. I've always taken atheism to mean the belief that there are no gods, not just the lack of a belief in a specific god.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:07 PM   #112
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The best thing is apatheism. It basically means you don't care if there is a god or not. Best description I fall into. If there was a god, I would not change the way I live my life one bit.
I can't wrap my mind around that concept. If I found indisputable proof that some god existed, it would profoundly change my life.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:08 PM   #113
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I'm not even sure if half the people on GL exist.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:09 PM   #114
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When He reveals Himself to you,
Whenever I read a statement like that I envision God as someone hanging out near a school yard in a trench coat...
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:19 PM   #115
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Whenever I read a statement like that I envision God as someone hanging out near a school yard in a trench coat...
What about this one?

Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:26 PM   #116
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Whenever I read a statement like that I envision God as someone hanging out near a school yard in a trench coat...
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:40 PM   #117
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When He reveals Himself to you, you will want to change the way you live your life and it will be only to please Him. You will not want to be the person you are now.
I was that person once and I could not go back to who I used to be.
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You're going to have to.
See He is a gentleman and will only wait to be invited. He will not intrude if you don't want Him in your life. Your posts make it quite clear where you stand..... so you'll be waiting awhile.
So do I have to already believe in him for him to reveal himself to me? Or can I not believe he exists based on my lack of evidence and then invite him to reveal himself to me? If he does reveal himself to me then I have evidence to believe in him.

I think I know what you're going to say, something along the lines of " I must believe and have faith " in order for him to reveal himself to me. This however seems like putting the cart before the horse.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 07:05 AM   #118
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It's quite simple. Believe and have faith. Cart before the horse, maybe but He wants you to put faith in Him that He is here for us.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 07:46 AM   #119
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I don't care.
I'm not the least bit flattered or insulted.
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 07:47 AM   #120
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It's quite simple. Believe and have faith. Cart before the horse, maybe but He wants you to put faith in Him that He is here for us.
It's not that simple. To believe something is true, you have to be convinced by evidence. I have none to go by, therefore I can't just will myself to believe and have faith. Do you understand what I'm saying?
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