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Old August 20th, 2013, 04:35 PM   #41
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And your point is??

God is closed minded according to God. To that I say, AMEN!

It is actually very good news that God is opposed to falsehoods. For example, if God had no standards, there would be no right and wrong. It would not be wrong for your neighbor to sleep with wife. Or the pedifile down the street to molest your child. Deep down, you are glad that God is closed to falsehoods and sets standards of righteousness. God's law is Holy, and it was designed that you and I find the end of ourselves and therefore find Him, become forgiven by him, accept his righteousness instead of our own, and be rewarded with eternal life, and all of that not of our own accord but based solely on the work of Christ on the cross.
Dave, dave, dave, I love you buddy, and you know that, but you're off the deep end on this one.

I know plenty of people who believe in god who have no standards, I call them morals, and I know that god has nothing to do with my morals.

My morals are based on pride and family and values, not anything that god told me to do or not do.

God should put a better watch on many of his poeple, because they don't seem to share his same sense of morality as you would lead one to believe.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 05:04 PM   #42
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I also know Christians that can't seem to figure out the difference between repentance and rebirth, and Christians who cheat on their wives. The truth is that we are all scum bags at the end of the day, myself included.

I additionally know moral people that are atheits. My brother is a good example. Put him and I together with a case of beer and it gets rather interesting.

I am not suggesting that without Christ you cannot do anything right. I am however saying that your good works don't amount to jack squat in God's eyes. The Bible says that your good deeds, all piled up, have the same worth as used menstral cloth (garbage). God cannot be impressed by a bunch of imperfect people acting the part of perfect people. God is just. The ONLY way we stand before God and are declared righteous is when the rightouesness from OUTSIDE of ourselves is placed over us. That my friend is the blood of Jesus Christ, that washes you clean of all your sin, cleansing you from all unrighteouness, making you pure before God. If you plan on being a good guy apart for the saving Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, you will not receive eternal life. I love you to Mr. Chad, and if I hated you, I would not declare this truth to you. God's love for us is so so great. We sinned against him, and while we were yet sinners, he died for us. He rose from the grace, that means he is capable of conquering death, not just his own, but your death-status due to sin. And what does this cost you and I? Nothing. We can't earn it. It is the free gift of God. This is called the gospel. Gospel literally translated is "good news." What good news? That you can be set free from sin and death and receive eternal life through your faith in Jesus Christ who loves you.

Last edited by Dave Kerwin; August 20th, 2013 at 05:15 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #43
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I also know Christians that can't seem to figure out the difference between repentance and rebirth, and Christians who cheat on their wives. The truth is that we are all scum bags at the end of the day, myself included.

I additionally know moral people that are atheits. My brother is a good example. Put him and I together with a case of beer and it gets rather interesting.

I am not suggesting that without Christ you cannot do anything right. I am however saying that your good works don't amount to jack squat in God's eyes. The Bible says that your good deeds, all piled up, have the same worth as used menstral cloth (garbage). God cannot be impressed by a bunch of imperfect people acting the part of perfect people. God is just. The ONLY way we stand before God and are declared righteous is when the rightouesness from OUTSIDE of ourselves is placed over us. That my friend is the blood of Jesus Christ, that washes you clean of all your sin, cleansing you from all unrighteouness, making you pure and before God. If you plan on being a good guy apart for the saving Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, you will not receive eternal life.
This explains why this biggest assholes, thieves, bullies, and general shitheads I went to junior high with were all the Catholic kids that had just gotten out of St. Angela's. They could do whatever they wanted, and as long as they confessed and did 'penance' they were absolved and good to go.

I think I just found the roots of my atheism....
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Old August 20th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #44
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I think I just found the roots of my atheism....
Total co-out bro. Someone else sucks, therefore I get away with unbelief?

Have a conversation with the man you shave with and see if you too are a sinner. Don't worry about other people, worry about your status before God.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 05:24 PM   #45
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That's quite a stretch to call it a recording. The word of god is the word of man said to be the word of god.
It is the word of God. The Spirit of God dwells in man thus giving man the inspiration to write the word of God. Did you know that,

There are 66 books in the bible and over 40 different authors, written over a 1500 year period, in three different languages, on three different continents with no historical errors or contradictions from Genesis to Revelation. It bears the mark of divine inspiration.
Check it out, your destination is important.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #46
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Total co-out bro. Someone else sucks, therefore I get away with unbelief?

Have a conversation with the man you shave with and see if you too are a sinner. Don't worry about other people, worry about your status before God.
Not a cop-out. Religion doesn't work for me. I would not be 'true' to profess a belief in something I do not believe in- just for a possible reward after I die. I am also prepared to accept the consequences if I am wrong, but I don't believe I am wrong.

Mind you, I am not in favor of preventing anyone from practicing their religion, nor am I offended by religious icons or celebrations. I can understand that a person's beliefs are important to them, and as far as ANYONE knows, correct for that person.

That, in part is what America is based on- Freedom OF Religion. In a way, atheism can be considered a religion since it is still a belief held by a group of people. This is why America sucks less than the rest of the world, we can have this discussion without either side declaring jihad.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #47
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As someone who does not believe in "god" do you realize that I could take your statement and turn it directly around on you?

That's the part about me vs you that will never change.

I am open minded enough to understand you have your beliefs, you will never be open minded enough to understand how ridiculous your beliefs are to people that do not believe in them.

There is plenty of scientific evidence that suggests your statement is as ridiculous if not more ridiculous than what you are claiming mine is.

No no no.....You missed my point. IF God is real, who do you think you are (as his creation) to tell him he's wrong? I'm not telling you it's wrong to question him but to make that statement, under that context, seems very arrogant.

If you want to get into why Christians believe that God spoke only through the bible or something along those lines. Lets go. But my previous comment was made with the understanding that you were talking in that context.

Oh, and I'm quite aware of how ridiculous my beliefs sound to others because I've been persecuted most of my life because of them.


I'm also curious on how science/logic could possibly make my statement sound ridiculous. However, I'm not keeping my hopes up on that because I'm sure I'll get " I don't have time for that now" or something along those lines. Science can't disprove Faith, and that's the context from what I was saying that statement.

IF you believe that God is wrong, you have to believe he exists. If you blame your lack of faith in him because of his inaction, You have to believe he exists. The list goes on but you still have to realize that, if you do hold to one of those statements, you are being very arrogant towards the one that created everything.


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lol. It's ok to not believe in it's existence, but don't don't say that the thing you don't believe in shouldn't have it's way...
Why would you care if you didn't believe, just a little bit, in it's existence? Just wave that magic wand of a million years or so and that thing that you don't believe in will be gone right?
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Old August 20th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #48
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It is the word of God. The Spirit of God dwells in man thus giving man the inspiration to write the word of God. Did you know that,

There are 66 books in the bible and over 40 different authors, written over a 1500 year period, in three different languages, on three different continents with no historical errors or contradictions from Genesis to Revelation. It bears the mark of divine inspiration.
Check it out, your destination is important.
Before you post, talk, type, speak, whatever.....do some damn research. It only takes a minute.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cv/scb/scb03.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...adictions.html

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/pa...contradictions

http://www.weseekthetruth.org/articles/article105.html
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Old August 20th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #49
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Why on earth would anybody in there right mind look to others that have no idea about God or the bible to look for evidence of it being accurate and true?
I would look to somebody who has spent their life studying the scriptures.
I can see why you and many others are so confused, you look to the idiots to find your version of truth and accept it as the real deal.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #50
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I make my own decisions, thank you.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #51
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OK, I'll weigh in. Intelligent people tend to question things and verify information presented to them. Of course, there are exceptions. Back in my research chemistry days, I worked will some absolutely brilliant people in their fields. What surprised me was how many of them were devout (fill in religion here). I've had many long and interesting discussions with a few of them about their belief systems and how they deal with the conflicts of religious information verses scientific fact. Some simply backed into Pascal's Wager, others incorporated their beliefs into the workings of science, IE: God is involved in the chemical reactions I'm working on or God gave me the answer to this complex problem I'm trying to solve. Back then I was confused as to how people of such intelligence could accept obvious contradictions in their belief system in the face of overwhelming evidence against what their book of sacred law directed them to believe. My thoughts are that they may be imprinted with religion at an early age and despite contradictory information, they are unable to totally shed their belief system due to fear of death, family pressure, etc.

I'm going to have to say that I believe people that don't believe in a supreme being tend to be more intelligent than those who are religious. I'm trying to convey this in an objective way and not an Atheist > Christian mentality. The evidence does tend to support Brewman's original post.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 06:19 AM   #52
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How about people who grew up believing what science preaches about origins and was the first in his family to come to Jesus and was not accepted at first? How would that fit into your theory?
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Old August 21st, 2013, 06:28 AM   #53
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How about people who grew up believing what science preaches about origins and was the first in his family to come to Jesus and was not accepted at first? How would that fit into your theory?
Not accepted by Jesus, or not accepted by family?

Not accepted by family has already been explained by the view that humans are not perfect like God.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:29 AM   #54
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Why on earth would anybody in there right mind look to others that have no idea about God or the bible to look for evidence of it being accurate and true?
I would look to somebody who has spent their life studying the scriptures.
I can see why you and many others are so confused, you look to the idiots to find your version of truth and accept it as the real deal.
I went to Catholic school, and we studied the bible for my whole six years there. I was taught by nuns and priests. We SPECIFICALLY went into the contradictions of the bible, even between the four gospels, and why that was.

Stop your blabbering bullshit. The bible has contradictions and you know it. It is not a perfect literary work.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:33 AM   #55
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I went to Catholic school, and we studied the bible for my whole six years there. I was taught by nuns and priests. We SPECIFICALLY went into the contradictions of the bible, even between the four gospels, and why that was.

Stop your blabbering bullshit. The bible has contradictions and you know it. It is not a perfect literary work.
If you say so

Show me.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:45 AM   #56
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No no no.....You missed my point. IF God is real, who do you think you are (as his creation) to tell him he's wrong? I'm not telling you it's wrong to question him but to make that statement, under that context, seems very arrogant. If I don't believe in god, why the hell would I think he is real and how would it be arrogant for me to make my statement? In any context?

If you want to get into why Christians believe that God spoke only through the bible or something along those lines. Lets go. But my previous comment was made with the understanding that you were talking in that context. I don't need to get into that, I understand you have your beliefs and I respect that, but as usual, the religious side can never appreciate that someone else may have another view. It's the old dead zebra, you just have to keep beating in hopes that some of you people realize that your way to live is not the only way people want to live. It's THAT simple, you have a belief, a faith, a way of life, and we have ours.

Oh, and I'm quite aware of how ridiculous my beliefs sound to others because I've been persecuted most of my life because of them. I am not trying to persecute you for your beliefs, I am perfectly ok with you having them. I am trying to get you to understand that just because you have them doesn't mean everyone else who doesn't have them should have them.


I'm also curious on how science/logic could possibly make my statement sound ridiculous. However, I'm not keeping my hopes up on that because I'm sure I'll get " I don't have time for that now" or something along those lines. Science can't disprove Faith, and that's the context from what I was saying that statement. Well, science/logic is based on the rules of physics, and biology, and scientific research, nowhere in any textbook on those subjects that I have read does it mention anything about God inventing those things. So, from that standpoint claiming he did seems pretty ridiculous to me, someone who does not believe in god.

IF you believe that God is wrong, you have to believe he exists. If you blame your lack of faith in him because of his inaction, You have to believe he exists. The list goes on but you still have to realize that, if you do hold to one of those statements, you are being very arrogant towards the one that created everything. Ummmmm, reaching a bit aren't you? Just because I believe that the statements you put forth about god are closed minded, or not plausible, or something I don't believe is does not create his existence. His existence is in your head not mine. His existence is in your book of life (bible) not mine. I am not being "arrogant" about the one who created everything, because I don't believe that "God" created anything.




Why would you care if you didn't believe, just a little bit, in it's existence? Just wave that magic wand of a million years or so and that thing that you don't believe in will be gone right?
Why would I care about what? I'm engaged in this conversation because I am always amazed at how much closedmindedness exists in the religious world.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 07:52 AM   #57
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Old August 21st, 2013, 08:30 AM   #58
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If you say so

Show me.
I just did. Here's another link. https://bible.org/seriespage/are-the...ctions-gospels

But maybe you can go on telling us about how dinosaurs and man walked the Earth together. You know, to add to your already booming credibility.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 10:14 AM   #59
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I just did. Here's another link. https://bible.org/seriespage/are-the...ctions-gospels

But maybe you can go on telling us about how dinosaurs and man walked the Earth together. You know, to add to your already booming credibility.
I am able to explain to you why all three claimed contradictions are not true. Before I spend a lot of time doing so, please first express to me that you are open to consider it. Seriously. Thanks
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Old August 21st, 2013, 11:39 AM   #60
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I am able to explain to you why all three claimed contradictions are not true. Before I spend a lot of time doing so, please first express to me that you are open to consider it. Seriously. Thanks
No need, I've studied the bible more than I ever need to.

I know they are not "true", but it still shows there are many contradictions in the bible. I'm not saying that the contradictions in the bible make it all false. Even when I was a practicing Catholic, I didn't take the bible literally. Some people (like aber61) take it as literally as if it were a chemistry book.
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