Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 3rd, 2013, 02:01 PM   #321
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opie View Post
Certainly some roads are narrow. But not all of them and we are all on different roads.

I am not trying to "come to the Father." Maybe wait until someone asks for directions before giving them.



Well, there is more than 1 right track. It is a bit short sighted and judgemental to suggest anyone on a track that leads anywhere but to God, is on the wrong track.

Who is the enemy and why is a non believer doomed to be damned?

You see, its not about believing or not believing in God... Its the passing of judgment by believers that non believers are on the wrong path... Now let this sink in, please... For no other reason than they are non believers.

When I walk past a church and I see happy people living their lives in a way that makes them happy, I don't feel compelled to tell them that the life they have chosen is wrong and they will be nothing because they have chosen to believe in God. Extend that courtesy to non believers and we will all get along alot better.
I think you've grossly misread and undestood my reason for saying what I do. You see, this thread is 10+ pages of a conversation. In the begining of that conversation I, hopefully, made it Crystal clear that I'm explaining the thought process of why believers believe. In that comes to light that what I'm saying is that, to us, there is ONE road. That's what Our holy book says.

I also want to repeat my self in saying that I'm not forcing this on anybody. Just explaining my side. You came in near the end of this thread making assumptions and repeating a discussion that I've had to have multiple times, I think even with you.

Per the Christian bible, there is one truth. There is only one way to God, and the road is narrow. Past that, it's up to faith.

If there is only one way and someone believes that to be true, how cruel would it be not to share that with people they love? For me, a polite 'sorry I don't want to hear that' won't do. I like my unbelieving friends and I won't want them to be with out God for eternity. I'm going to do my best, while still showing love and grace, to get them to see they are on (to me) the wrong track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
This has always been an interested concept to me. On the Christian side, when asked about who made God, I've been told that God has always been and was never created. This same aurgument can also be used for the matter contained in the Universe. I personally don't agree with the "Everything from nothing" concept of the Big Bang. I believe the Big Bang happened because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support it (read up on Red Shift as one form of evidence). What I don't personally believe is that everything just "appeared". The cornerstone of my thought process is that Time is nothing more than a human construct and does not apply in the grand process of the Universe. Evidence of this can be found when observing rapidly moving objects such as Singularities. Because ALL the rules of the physical Universe are thrown out the window when dealing with these objects, I think rigidly expecting a starting point for Matter is unrealistic. I guess my hypothesis about the Big Bang is that it is not truly the begining of our universe but insted is a product of the constant wax and wane of what universes do. Essentially, my thoughts are the Universe goes through periodic "big bangs" along with big collapses. The time frame that this happens is almost infathomable to us humans but the Universe does not care.
So what you're saying is it's ok to through out the laws of physics if it explains something like a singularity but to do so to explain how the , would be, creator of the universe did something is ignorant and unintelligent?
L4CX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 02:46 PM   #322
opie
www.krissplicing.com
 
Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 818
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I think you've grossly misread and undestood my reason for saying what I do. You see, this thread is 10+ pages of a conversation. In the begining of that conversation I, hopefully, made it Crystal clear that I'm explaining the thought process of why believers believe. In that comes to light that what I'm saying is that, to us, there is ONE road. That's what Our holy book says.
That is possible that I misunderstood your point.

I, personally, do not have a deficiency in understanding the thought process of why believers believe their is only one right road. I get "it." And I am in no way suggesting that you are wrong for that belief. What non believers would like is that same courtesy extended to them.

Stop telling us we are on the wrong road for no other reason than we do not believe in God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I also want to repeat my self in saying that I'm not forcing this on anybody. Just explaining my side. You came in near the end of this thread making assumptions and repeating a discussion that I've had to have multiple times, I think even with you.
I get no indication from your posts that you are overly aggressive with your evangelism.

I am trying to explain my side. While I may not be doing a good job of it, I am trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Per the Christian bible, there is one truth. There is only one way to God, and the road is narrow. Past that, it's up to faith.
I dont dispute that and I celebrate that it works for those who choose to follow that path.

However,

Not everyone subscribes to that belief or wants to travel down that path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
If there is only one way and someone believes that to be true, how cruel would it be not to share that with people they love?
By all means, share it. Just don't be pushy. I am not accusing you of being pushy, but folks like Aber, who may have their heart in the right place, put folks on the defensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
For me, a polite 'sorry I don't want to hear that' won't do. I like my unbelieving friends and I won't want them to be with out God for eternity. I'm going to do my best, while still showing love and grace, to get them to see they are on (to me) the wrong track.
That is, IMO, being pushy.
opie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:12 PM   #323
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opie View Post

That is, IMO, being pushy.
I mean, I wouldn't shove it down their throats but I would let them know I am concerned. The idea that I will be in line at the pearly gates and one of my non-believing friends will be screaming at me across the void asking why I didn't tell him about God haunts me.

I beleieve in a hell. There is no fire, there is no light, there are no friends, no love, nothing. Theologically, hell is a place that is absent of God. That includes all his characteristics which I believe to be things like Love, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control, compassion, etc. To put my friends in that position (especially seeing them enjoying love or goodness with thier family) pains me. Hell is not a party and I will try my best to make sure my unbelieving friends are not there when the bell tolls. If that means I come off as pushy to you, then fine.


However, I will do so in a way that will not push them away. That doesn't do any good for anybody. And I don't personally see being 'pushy' as judging.

To judge I would have to see my self in a higher place then my non-believing friends. The definition of a Christian is someone who has recognized thier sin and fallen at Jesus's feet to take care of it. How is it possible to be proud in that position? Granted, there are people that do it often. Personally I think they have forgotten how they received thier salvation.

Either it's that, or it's Your perception of how we see our selves compared to non-believers. I don't know many Christians who think they are better then anybody. Most of us know we are in the position we are in not because of our work, but because of God's grace. Maybe in our culture that idea is so far removed that it comes off as snubbery.
L4CX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:16 PM   #324
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,745
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

So, are you saying you want them to believe so they can go to heaven with you? You're not looking down on them because they don't believe and that is uncool?

That is an interesting persepctive, to me it always feels as if the vibe I get is. You don't believe, so you are bad and I am better than you.

But put like you just did is an interesting way to look at it. Interesting enough in fact it begs the question, if my fear is you not being with me when we die, can I try to convince you that my beliefs are better and you should come with me instead?
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 03:19 PM   #325
SS
Such Majestic. Wow.
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Bimini, Bahamas
Posts: 11,439
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Default

I don't believe in this thread. I read through it all and it is a prime example of exactly why the human race continues to find reasons to hate and slaughter each other.
__________________
-Jeremy

AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:01 PM   #326
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,077
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
So, are you saying you want them to believe so they can go to heaven with you? You're not looking down on them because they don't believe and that is uncool?

That is an interesting persepctive, to me it always feels as if the vibe I get is. You don't believe, so you are bad and I am better than you.

But put like you just did is an interesting way to look at it. Interesting enough in fact it begs the question, if my fear is you not being with me when we die, can I try to convince you that my beliefs are better and you should come with me instead?
Attempting to save friends and unbelieving loved ones is not completely about going to heaven with us, its mostly saving their soul and being in the presence of God for eternity.
Before I became a Christian I thought the same way, "those religious people think they're better than everybody else".
The reason I thought that way was that I did not understand Christianity, God or His followers. I took offence that they thought that I needed saving. The nerve of those do gooders
The problem with your last comment is you can try, but ...................nah. I 'll leave that one alone.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 04:23 PM   #327
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,373
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

She blinded me with Science but failed me in Biology.

Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 05:28 PM   #328
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
That is an interesting persepctive, to me it always feels as if the vibe I get is. You don't believe, so you are bad and I am better than you.
This is always the case for true believers. I like to think of it like this. I found the cure for cancer. I was a weak man that needed a cure. I got it, now I want others to know the cure. To make the analogy work, cancer is sin. I will speak for Abe that he does not consider himself better, he considers himself forgiven of his wrong. If Christians were able to EARN forgiveness, then the holier than thou gig WOULD work. The fact of the matter is that forgiveness of sins is NOT earned through good deeds, it is exclusively the work of Jesus, the free gift of his death to pay for our sins. With that in mind, there is no such thing as being better, only a matter of forgiveness.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 05:29 PM   #329
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
I don't believe in this thread..
I don't believe in this thread either, its a crutch for the weak!!
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2013, 06:09 PM   #330
opie
www.krissplicing.com
 
Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 818
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I mean, I wouldn't shove it down their throats but I would let them know I am concerned. The idea that I will be in line at the pearly gates and one of my non-believing friends will be screaming at me across the void asking why I didn't tell him about God haunts me.
You being concerned is an admirable trait. I don't wish to make light of that characteristic.

If you did tell your friends about God, and they made a choice to not move in that direction, you should harbor no guilt for the decision they made. We are all adults here and if one chooses to live their life without God and all the punishment that entails, based on what you believe, then let them be free and at peace with their decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I beleieve in a hell. There is no fire, there is no light, there are no friends, no love, nothing. Theologically, hell is a place that is absent of God.
No argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
That includes all his characteristics which I believe to be things like Love, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control, compassion, etc.
Herein lies the root of my personal issue. You are making the assumption, as well as passing judgement, that the only way anyone can acquire and represent these traits is through God. There are millions of people around the world that prove this line of thinking false, every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
To put my friends in that position (especially seeing them enjoying love or goodness with thier family) pains me.
Again, if you present your side of the issue to your friends and they decide to not listen, you should harbor no guilt. You can not control people. Its not your business nor is it your right.

And again with the notion that only certain things can be attained via God. I can assure you I enjoy love and goodness with my family, daily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Hell is not a party and I will try my best to make sure my unbelieving friends are not there when the bell tolls. If that means I come off as pushy to you, then fine.
Its not personal, and I know it is difficult to discern tone of voice via the internet. Please don't take it personally. I know you are a good person, despite the fact we disagree on this specific topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
However, I will do so in a way that will not push them away. That doesn't do any good for anybody. And I don't personally see being 'pushy' as judging.
When you tell someone they are on the wrong road for no reason other than their disbelief in God, you are judging their personal life decisions. If you were to quantify your stance to something along the lines of helping druggies or people that abuse their spouses, it would be an easier pill to swallow. But so far, its only because of a disbelief in God.

Millions of people every day "do the right thing." But based on your stance, they are still on the wrong road. Thats quite a judgement of damnation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
To judge I would have to see my self in a higher place then my non-believing friends.
You must not see it, but that is exactly what you are doing. You are saying to non believers that you are on the right road and they are not. You are in a better position because you believe in God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
The definition of a Christian is someone who has recognized thier sin and fallen at Jesus's feet to take care of it. How is it possible to be proud in that position? Granted, there are people that do it often. Personally I think they have forgotten how they received thier salvation.
Its not about pride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Either it's that, or it's Your perception of how we see our selves compared to non-believers. I don't know many Christians who think they are better then anybody. Most of us know we are in the position we are in not because of our work, but because of God's grace. Maybe in our culture that idea is so far removed that it comes off as snubbery.
You may be right.

It may also be that the push to spread Gods word has blinded some to the fact they are being pushy. I don't think its being a snob, just condescending.

And let me reiterate.... I am not anti religion. We all should be free to follow whatever path we choose. Its simply my opinion that Gods path is not the only right one. I would appreciate not being judged while Im on that path. Telling me Im on the wrong path because its not Gods path, is a judgement, IMO. It entirely negates any good that one may do along that path, its just wrong because its not Gods path.

Thank you for being civil and I apologize if my posts come off as combative.
opie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 08:01 AM   #331
BlooMule
pew pew
 
BlooMule's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: a mile from the shithole
Posts: 24,377
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
This is always the case for true believers. I like to think of it like this. I found the cure for cancer. I was a weak man that needed a cure. I got it, now I want others to know the cure. To make the analogy work, cancer is sin. I will speak for Abe that he does not consider himself better, he considers himself forgiven of his wrong. If Christians were able to EARN forgiveness, then the holier than thou gig WOULD work. The fact of the matter is that forgiveness of sins is NOT earned through good deeds, it is exclusively the work of Jesus, the free gift of his death to pay for our sins. With that in mind, there is no such thing as being better, only a matter of forgiveness.
So- if Ariel Castro accepted Jesus as his Savior, he gets a free pass into heaven?
__________________
-rw-rw-rw
BlooMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 08:36 AM   #332
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by opie View Post
You being concerned is an admirable trait. I don't wish to make light of that characteristic.

If you did tell your friends about God, and they made a choice to not move in that direction, you should harbor no guilt for the decision they made. We are all adults here and if one chooses to live their life without God and all the punishment that entails, based on what you believe, then let them be free and at peace with their decision.
I realize I shouldn't feel guilty, but I will because, IMO, eternity is a really long time. .

Quote:
Herein lies the root of my personal issue. You are making the assumption, as well as passing judgement, that the only way anyone can acquire and represent these traits is through God. There are millions of people around the world that prove this line of thinking false, every day.
I didn't say you couldn't have those traits with out God. You can. However, per my belief, those traits come from God. The reason we, as humans, can have those traits sans God is becuase we made in his image. What I'm saying is that in hell, as far as I'm convinced, those traits will no longer be available for us to have.



Quote:
Its not personal, and I know it is difficult to discern tone of voice via the internet. Please don't take it personally. I know you are a good person, despite the fact we disagree on this specific topic./
Totally not personal. But are you saying that I could be a better person if I agreed with you on the subject. .


Quote:
When you tell someone they are on the wrong road for no reason other than their disbelief in God, you are judging their personal life decisions. If you were to quantify your stance to something along the lines of helping druggies or people that abuse their spouses, it would be an easier pill to swallow. But so far, its only because of a disbelief in God.

Millions of people every day "do the right thing." But based on your stance, they are still on the wrong road. Thats quite a judgement of damnation.
Would it be different if I explained that I was in the same place as they were before I found my salvation? That we are all sinners and the only difference between Christians and non-Christians is that we have had someone take our sins away? That's the only difference.

Quote:
You must not see it, but that is exactly what you are doing. You are saying to non believers that you are on the right road and they are not. You are in a better position because you believe in God.
I know we live in a world with the montra 'truth is relitive'. The thing is, I don't live by that montra. From what the bible says, and from what I believe, there is only ONE way. I think that's where the problem starts most of the time. Per our holy scripture, there is only one way.

Granted I'm only on this road because God saved me and not by own doing. Which I think is part of the perspective issue. Most non-believers see Christians as judgemental and hateful because they don't understand the position they are coming from. All they hear is 'I'm better then you" when the Christian is saying "I'm just as sinful as you but I've been given a second chance and I want you to have it too".

Quote:
It may also be that the push to spread Gods word has blinded some to the fact they are being pushy. I don't think its being a snob, just condescending.

And let me reiterate.... I am not anti religion. We all should be free to follow whatever path we choose. Its simply my opinion that Gods path is not the only right one. I would appreciate not being judged while Im on that path. Telling me Im on the wrong path because its not Gods path, is a judgement, IMO. It entirely negates any good that one may do along that path, its just wrong because its not Gods path.
You're completely free to have that opinion and I hope you can realize that Christians can't accept the idea of more then one path to salvation. It's hard wired into our faith and is why we are so persistent.

I'm also completely aware that people believe in other paths. That's thier right to do, however, just like Christians, there should be a reason to be on that path and you should be able to defend it.

Quote:
Thank you for being civil and I apologize if my posts come off as combative.
No problem. You don't come off as combative at all. I enjoy the conversation.
L4CX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 08:42 AM   #333
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
So, are you saying you want them to believe so they can go to heaven with you? You're not looking down on them because they don't believe and that is uncool?

That is an interesting persepctive, to me it always feels as if the vibe I get is. You don't believe, so you are bad and I am better than you.

But put like you just did is an interesting way to look at it. Interesting enough in fact it begs the question, if my fear is you not being with me when we die, can I try to convince you that my beliefs are better and you should come with me instead?
Ultimately it's not about being with your friends, it's about thier eternal destination. My fear is them being in hell while asking "why didn't any of my Christian friends tell me about this?" I refuse to allow that to happen.


You can try to convince me otherwise but......we all know how that goes. I'll be glad to talk about why you believe what you do and try and understand how you got there.
L4CX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #334
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
So- if Ariel Castro accepted Jesus as his Savior, he gets a free pass into heaven?
Yes he would, as the Grace of God is greater than an evil that man can do. I repeat, the Grace of God is GREATER, more powerful, than the wrongdoing of you and I and of Ariel Castro. Do you remember the story when Jesus was on the cross between two known criminals? One of them remained the same and died in his sins. The other was seeing Jesus next to him and was then convinced of his Lordship and asked how he can enter into his Kingdom. Jesus invited him, and based upon his faith, forgave him and welcomed him. The fact of the matter is that you are as guilty of sin as Castro. You may not have raped and imprisoned women, but I am wililng to bet that you have broken many of God's laws, I certainly have. You and I are both guilty, and we both qualify for a the free pass, the free gift of eternal life, but not without Jesus Christ.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #335
BlooMule
pew pew
 
BlooMule's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: a mile from the shithole
Posts: 24,377
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Yes he would, as the Grace of God is greater than an evil that man can do. I repeat, the Grace of God is GREATER, more powerful, than the wrongdoing of you and I and of Ariel Castro. Do you remember the story when Jesus was on the cross between two known criminals? One of them remained the same and died in his sins. The other was seeing Jesus next to him and was then convinced of his Lordship and asked how he can enter into his Kingdom. Jesus invited him, and based upon his faith, forgave him and welcomed him. The fact of the matter is that you are as guilty of sin as Castro. You may not have raped and imprisoned women, but I am wililng to bet that you have broken many of God's laws, I certainly have. You and I are both guilty, and we both qualify for a the free pass, the free gift of eternal life, but not without Jesus Christ.
So, how does this fit into the 'vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord' concept?

The Lord COULD take vengeance, but chooses mercy instead?
__________________
-rw-rw-rw
BlooMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 10:16 AM   #336
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,745
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Ultimately it's not about being with your friends, it's about thier eternal destination. My fear is them being in hell while asking "why didn't any of my Christian friends tell me about this?" I refuse to allow that to happen.


You can try to convince me otherwise but......we all know how that goes. I'll be glad to talk about why you believe what you do and try and understand how you got there.
I can appreciate this.

In the meantime, I would just like to let you know that I do not believe in God (today) and I refuse , like you, to not at least offer the other path. Just so we're being recipricol (sp)

With that, I'm satisfied with your explanation and will stop pestering you about it.

Further, if I were to turn to god or was interested in changing my beliefs you and mr. kerwin rank highly on the list of people I would turn to.
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #337
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,373
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post


So what you're saying is it's ok to through out the laws of physics if it explains something like a singularity but to do so to explain how the , would be, creator of the universe did something is ignorant and unintelligent?
Yes, saying that an invisible sky dwelling mega man is responsible for everything IS ignorant and unintelligent. Look back at what you've done to my postulation. Since I made a statement that Science does not know something, you immediately injected the "God did it" analogy so explain an unknown. In my statement, I said that the laws of physics no longer apply when nearing an object of extreme density and speed. These objects behave to a different set of rules that we are not sure of yet. Did you see what I did there? I said Science does not know the answers yet and that's ok. Science does not need to fill the blanks with magic beings that control things, it just says it does not have the answer at this time. In the Christian mindset, anything than can not be explained defaults to the "God did it" mindset.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:36 AM   #338
doomsick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 338
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I've met a few christians that were almost worthy of the air they were breathing...
doomsick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #339
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
So, how does this fit into the 'vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord' concept?

The Lord COULD take vengeance, but chooses mercy instead?
You're exactly right. God has the right to flood the earth again and wipe us out, but he promised not to (did you know that is the actual meaning of the rainbow?). Anyhow, one of the most respectable aspects of God is his restraint. We earned punishment for violating his laws, but his great love for us reserves that punishment, he instead overflows with grace, with mercy, with forgiveness, not based on our earning it, but based on the fact that he loves us. How much does he love us? So much that he would send his only son, on a death mission, to pay the price for our wrongdoing. He paid our ransom. Now we are set free to live for Christ, in relationship with the Father, both now and forevermore.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #340
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,745
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
You're exactly right. God has the right to flood the earth again and wipe us out, but he promised not to (did you know that is the actual meaning of the rainbow?). .
Meaning of a rainbow?

A rainbow doesn't mean anything, it is how light is refracted (whatever the term is) through water......God doesn't do that, science does.....

Quote:
rainbow is an optical and meteorological phenomenon that is caused by reflection of light in water droplets in the Earth's atmosphere, resulting in a spectrum of light appearing in the sky. It takes the form of a multicoloured arc.
Rainbows caused by sunlight always appear in the section of sky directly opposite the sun.

In a "primary rainbow", the arc shows red on the outer part and violet on the inner side. This rainbow is caused by light being refracted while entering a droplet of water, then reflected inside on the back of the droplet and refracted again when leaving it.

In a double rainbow, a second arc is seen outside the primary arc, and has the order of its colours reversed, red facing toward the other one, in both rainbows. This second rainbow is caused by light reflecting twice inside water droplets.
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.47235 seconds with 52 queries