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Old August 30th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #261
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Lets put it this way. I see you' re on the train tracks and I know the train is coming but you don't. I will do everything to convince you to get off the tracks. I can't grab you and force you to do anything but I will try and convince you it's time to get off the tracks and save yourself.
As Christians we see and know the train is coming but non believers don't even know their on the tracks, let alone that there is a train coming.
If you thought that your life was in danger wouldn't you want to get off the tracks?
There is a tacit implication here that non believers are on the train track for no other reason than they are non believers.

THAT is why non believers don't want to be "reached" out to. By reaching out you are passing judgement on the life choices that have been made. People don't like to be judged.

EDIT: Especially by a person who subscribes to a philosophy that tells them they are supposed to leave the judging up to their God.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 07:41 AM   #262
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There is a tacit implication here that non believers are on the train track for no other reason than they are non believers.

THAT is why non believers don't want to be "reached" out to. By reaching out you are passing judgement on the life choices that have been made. People don't like to be judged.

EDIT: Especially by a person who subscribes to a philosophy that tells them they are supposed to leave the judging up to their God.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:00 AM   #263
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Also, Christians have no more evidence to claim that we (non-believers) are on the train tracks, that there is for Christians being on the train tracks of all the other world religions.

Isn't it weird how a Christian can be so utterly convinced that Christianity is true based on studies, like Dave Kerwin, yet someone on the other side of the world can put in just as much time, prayer, etc. and be utterly convinced of a different religion? What does that tell you about both of them?

Also isn't it interesting that it seems like a majority of the time, this is the case:

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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:49 AM   #264
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There is a tacit implication here that non believers are on the train track for no other reason than they are non believers.

THAT is why non believers don't want to be "reached" out to. By reaching out you are passing judgement on the life choices that have been made. People don't like to be judged.

EDIT: Especially by a person who subscribes to a philosophy that tells them they are supposed to leave the judging up to their God.
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Also, Christians have no more evidence to claim that we (non-believers) are on the train tracks, that there is for Christians being on the train tracks of all the other world religions.

Isn't it weird how a Christian can be so utterly convinced that Christianity is true based on studies, like Dave Kerwin, yet someone on the other side of the world can put in just as much time, prayer, etc. and be utterly convinced of a different religion? What does that tell you about both of them?

Also isn't it interesting that it seems like a majority of the time, this is the case:

As Christians we are suppose to reach out and warn others of the danger they are facing.
I suppose the only time that danger will be realized will be to late for some.

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Then He will pass judgment on everybody. He will say well done good and faithful servant or away from me.
After this happens all your other religions and beliefs will not help you.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:52 AM   #265
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Also, Christians have no more evidence to claim that we (non-believers) are on the train tracks, that there is for Christians being on the train tracks of all the other world religions.
That's not entirely true. I have evidence, to me, that I'm on 'the right track' because God has revealed him self to me in many different ways. I've tested his will for my life and have always been reaffirmed in the path that I am on. Although it may not be proof for you, it is evidence to me that I'm on the right track.

What's your evidence that you're on the right track?


Quote:
Isn't it weird how a Christian can be so utterly convinced that Christianity is true based on studies, like Dave Kerwin, yet someone on the other side of the world can put in just as much time, prayer, etc. and be utterly convinced of a different religion? What does that tell you about both of them?

Also isn't it interesting that it seems like a majority of the time, this is the case:
It tells me that, at least, that person regognizes and accepts things they cannot completely understand and That God has let him self be known through his creation. That idea just proves to me that 'religous people' are more open minded in that area then unbelievers.

Oh, and as much as I hate using pascals wager, it applies pretty well in that situtation.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:56 AM   #266
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It's a little hard to explain how I came to be an atheist with my background, only way I can explain it is that religion didn't answer my questions.

Something for another thread sometime- people who become religious near the end of their life- seeing the light, or hedging their bets?
Can I ask what question(s) were not resolved?

Everyone I have EVER interacted with who has come to faith in Christ has not done so as a means of taking their chances, it was because they saw the light.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:59 AM   #267
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What does that tell you about both of them?
It says they are both people of conviction, one believing a lie, and the other the truth. Simple, lol
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:26 AM   #268
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Can I ask what question(s) were not resolved?

Everyone I have EVER interacted with who has come to faith in Christ has not done so as a means of taking their chances, it was because they saw the light.
The big one that I never got a satisfactory answer to was this:

Who, or What, created God?
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:27 AM   #269
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It tells me that, at least, that person regognizes and accepts things they cannot completely understand and That God has let him self be known through his creation. That idea just proves to me that 'religous people' are more open minded in that area then unbelievers.
I understand what your saying, and agree that it requires a more "open mind" to accept something that can not be proven than it does to not believe anything without proof. The problem I see is with the people that, once accepting something they cannot fully understand, then expect others to go along with it.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:37 AM   #270
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As Christians we are suppose to reach out and warn others of the danger they are facing.
I suppose the only time that danger will be realized will be to late for some.

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Then He will pass judgment on everybody. He will say well done good and faithful servant or away from me.
After this happens all your other religions and beliefs will not help you.
Nope, all will bow to Allah.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:46 AM   #271
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That's not entirely true. I have evidence, to me, that I'm on 'the right track' because God has revealed him self to me in many different ways. I've tested his will for my life and have always been reaffirmed in the path that I am on. Although it may not be proof for you, it is evidence to me that I'm on the right track.

What's your evidence that you're on the right track?

I don't think I'm on any train tracks.


It tells me that, at least, that person regognizes and accepts things they cannot completely understand and That God has let him self be known through his creation. That idea just proves to me that 'religous people' are more open minded in that area then unbelievers.

[COLOR="rgb(255, 0, 255)"]so do you think god revealed himself to you and Allah, Ganesh, Buddha, revealed himself to others?[/COLOR]

Oh, and as much as I hate using pascals wager, it applies pretty well in that situtation.
Pascal's wager is bullshit. For one you can't make yourself believe something that you aren't convinced of, regardless if its "just in case". For two what I would gather from Pascal's wager, is that if you took it seriously, it would make sense to pick the religion with the worst punishment for non-belief and "believe " in that. Obviously, as I stated before, that's not really realistic.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 10:47 AM   #272
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I understand what your saying, and agree that it requires a more "open mind" to accept something that can not be proven than it does to not believe anything without proof. The problem I see is with the people that, once accepting something they cannot fully understand, then expect others to go along with it.
Yes, personal experience is fine for you, but isn't a very good reason for anyone else to believe.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 11:35 AM   #273
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I understand what your saying, and agree that it requires a more "open mind" to accept something that can not be proven than it does to not believe anything without proof. The problem I see is with the people that, once accepting something they cannot fully understand, then expect others to go along with it.
Yeah, I get that. That's why I don't push fire and brimstone. It doesn't work and it's the wrong reason to believe. I solely believe that the only way to convince someone that my faith is genuine is to show them in my day to day life. Talking on here, I'm just giving the reason why.

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Pascal's wager is bullshit. For one you can't make yourself believe something that you aren't convinced of, regardless if its "just in case". For two what I would gather from Pascal's wager, is that if you took it seriously, it would make sense to pick the religion with the worst punishment for non-belief and "believe " in that. Obviously, as I stated before, that's not really realistic.
OK, so, which religion would you go with?

I pick Christianity because:
1.(being honest) I was raised in that faith however it is very clear that my parents would accept me for whatever I believed. My faith is now my own. Not just because I say so but because I've made the personal decisions to make it my own including believing things that my parents do not agree with me on.

2. I've tested the promises made in the bible and they have come out true every single time.

3. It's the only religion I'm aware of that only requires one step to salvation. The rest is an outward showing of an inward change. There are no lists, there are no incantations, there are no traditions that can keep you from taking the one step. The only restriction is your own pride.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 11:42 AM   #274
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Yeah, I get that. That's why I don't push fire and brimstone. It doesn't work and it's the wrong reason to believe. I solely believe that the only way to convince someone that my faith is genuine is to show them in my day to day life. Talking on here, I'm just giving the reason why.



OK, so, which religion would you go with?
None, because as I so eloquently stated before , Pascal's wager is bullshit.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 01:06 PM   #275
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None, because as I so eloquently stated before , Pascal's wager is bullshit.
It's simplistic but I think it makes a valid point. Tell me in what religion, besides Islam , would a Christian be (assuming they follow the teachings of loving and grace) in bad standing if they were to die?
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Old August 31st, 2013, 03:57 PM   #276
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As Christians we are suppose to reach out and warn others of the danger they are facing.
I suppose the only time that danger will be realized will be to late for some.

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Then He will pass judgment on everybody. He will say well done good and faithful servant or away from me.
After this happens all your other religions and beliefs will not help you.

The danger you are afraid of is not shared by everyone. There is a simplistic beauty in the fact that we are all individuals. Not believing in God is not equal to being in danger or needing to be saved.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 04:04 PM   #277
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That's not entirely true. I have evidence, to me, that I'm on 'the right track' because God has revealed him self to me in many different ways. I've tested his will for my life and have always been reaffirmed in the path that I am on. Although it may not be proof for you, it is evidence to me that I'm on the right track.

What's your evidence that you're on the right track?
God presenting himself to you may be what you needed in order to affirm you are on the right track.

That does not mean the only way for one to feel or decide they are on the right track is a presentation of God. Nor does it mean that an individual who does not believe in God is on the wrong track, for no other reason.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 04:37 PM   #278
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God presenting himself to you may be what you needed in order to affirm you are on the right track.

That does not mean the only way for one to feel or decide they are on the right track is a presentation of God. Nor does it mean that an individual who does not believe in God is on the wrong track, for no other reason.
Narrow is the road......

No man shall come to the father except through me......

Seems like it's pretty clear that, from a healthy Christian standing, that there is only one 'right track' and that the enemy will do anything to make you think otherwise.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 04:56 PM   #279
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Narrow is the road......

No man shall come to the father except through me......
Certainly some roads are narrow. But not all of them and we are all on different roads.

I am not trying to "come to the Father." Maybe wait until someone asks for directions before giving them.

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Seems like it's pretty clear that, from a healthy Christian standing, that there is only one 'right track' and that the enemy will do anything to make you think otherwise.
Well, there is more than 1 right track. It is a bit short sighted and judgemental to suggest anyone on a track that leads anywhere but to God, is on the wrong track.

Who is the enemy and why is a non believer doomed to be damned?

You see, its not about believing or not believing in God... Its the passing of judgment by believers that non believers are on the wrong path... Now let this sink in, please... For no other reason than they are non believers.

When I walk past a church and I see happy people living their lives in a way that makes them happy, I don't feel compelled to tell them that the life they have chosen is wrong and they will be nothing because they have chosen to believe in God. Extend that courtesy to non believers and we will all get along alot better.
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Old August 31st, 2013, 08:47 PM   #280
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It's simplistic but I think it makes a valid point. Tell me in what religion, besides Islam , would a Christian be (assuming they follow the teachings of loving and grace) in bad standing if they were to die?
I don't know of one. But be careful with that, it's easy to turn that around and use against you as an example of Christian intolerance.

What religion, besides Christianity and Islam, will tell you that if you don't believe as they do that you will spend eternity burning in hell?
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