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Old August 19th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #61
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But:
"A day is like a thousand years"...

Bruce, this is a simile? Did you even read 2 Peter? and if so, are you familiar with the message of that scripture?

In contrast, Genesis directly defines the unit of time. It doesn't say "and the morning and evening were LIKE a day".

I won't deny that there is lack of physical proof for both evolution and creationism; testable proof that can NEVER be provided. But pulling text out of context is a poor argument. You can do better.
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Old August 19th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #62
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"A day is like a thousand years"...

Bruce, this is a simile? Did you even read 2 Peter? and if so, are you familiar with the message of that scripture?

In contrast, Genesis directly defines the unit of time. It doesn't say "and the morning and evening were LIKE a day".

I won't deny that there is lack of physical proof for both evolution and creationism; testable proof that can NEVER be provided. But pulling text out of context is a poor argument. You can do better.
An argument in support of a literal 6 day creation and 6000 year old earth? No, I have nothing for that. If you tell me my choices are that or be an atheist I guess I'll have to be an atheist. But I could believe in something like Bloomule suggested, where god mixes up the ingredient and kick starts it with a big bang.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #63
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An argument in support of a literal 6 day creation and 6000 year old earth? No, I have nothing for that. If you tell me my choices are that or be an atheist I guess I'll have to be an atheist. But I could believe in something like Bloomule suggested, where god mixes up the ingredient and kick starts it with a big bang.
The only problem I see with Bloomule's 'theory' is that if you ask any 'on fire' Christian if God is active today, he is. That's why they are Christians. This kind of contradicts the more deist view on God just putting all the ingredients in the bowl and lighting the match. If I were a God that was active in the lives of my creations I would want to form a perfect world for them and be active in every detail.


However, I know plenty of very strong Christians that accept, for the most part, evolution. You don't have to get everything right to follow Christ. You have to be willing to recognize that you won't ever get it right enough to be good enough for God; and in that realization you accept that Christ did just that and wants you to take his place.

Evolution, Creationism, baptism, tongues/no tongues, 'why do people suffer' any of these arguments that people use to deny God are really just red hearings and completely inconsequential to What God really wants from you.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #64
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The chaps at the planet-builders factory start up life as we know it in a split second...why is 6 days so hard to believe?


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MbNtlS69HhU[/youtube
]
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Old August 20th, 2013, 06:00 PM   #65
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The only problem I see with Bloomule's 'theory' is that if you ask any 'on fire' Christian if God is active today, he is. That's why they are Christians. This kind of contradicts the more deist view on God just putting all the ingredients in the bowl and lighting the match. If I were a God that was active in the lives of my creations I would want to form a perfect world for them and be active in every detail.


However, I know plenty of very strong Christians that accept, for the most part, evolution. You don't have to get everything right to follow Christ. You have to be willing to recognize that you won't ever get it right enough to be good enough for God; and in that realization you accept that Christ did just that and wants you to take his place.

Evolution, Creationism, baptism, tongues/no tongues, 'why do people suffer' any of these arguments that people use to deny God are really just red hearings and completely inconsequential to What God really wants from you.
What if God is really that kid that burns ants with a magnifying glass?

The ants don't know why cousin Fred just erupted in a ball of flame and popped, it it beyond their understanding.

The impression you are giving me is that attempting to understand God is futile, and to just accept him.

Sort of the same logic a battered woman uses when she goes back to her abusive man. And I have read some pretty abusive stuff by God in the Bible.

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Old August 20th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #66
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What if God is really that kid that burns ants with a magnifying glass?

The ants don't know why cousin Fred just erupted in a ball of flame and popped, it it beyond their understanding.

The impression you are giving me is that attempting to understand God is futile, and to just accept him.

Sort of the same logic a battered woman uses when she goes back to her abusive man. And I have read some pretty abusive stuff by God in the Bible.

There's a difference between a man who beats his wife and a man who spanks his child to discipline them. Intent.

Don't give up trying to understand God but realize that you won't ever fully understand him. Also, don't think that you have to fully understand him to rely on him and trust in him.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 07:55 PM   #67
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There's a difference between a man who beats his wife and a man who spanks his child to discipline them. Intent.

Don't give up trying to understand God but realize that you won't ever fully understand him. Also, don't think that you have to fully understand him to rely on him and trust in him.
I wasn't thinking 'spare the rod'... I was thinking Job.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #68
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I wasn't thinking 'spare the rod'... I was thinking Job.
I wasn't referring to a biblical act with that comment, I was saying that God's actions, even in the OT, can be seen as Discipline. God told them to do something, they didn't, they were disciplined. A man beating his wife is not discipline but abuse.


Job, while messed up, is a very interesting book to read. I went through it last year. Job's faithfulness is what is key to that book. Does he doubt God? Yeah, does he even yell at him and tell him he's stupid? Yup, but he never completely turns away from God.

You also have to remember that the OT stuff was thousands of years ago. Kill or be killed. While there are plenty of examples of God helping his children (which the messiah came through) there are an equal amount of time where he disciplined them and took everything. The core message is this, rely on God and invest in him and you will be blessed. Do the opposite and you will be cursed.
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Old August 20th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #69
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'Do it my way or I will take my toys and go home'

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Old August 21st, 2013, 08:35 AM   #70
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'Do it my way or I will take my toys and go home'

Kinda like that
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Old August 21st, 2013, 01:33 PM   #71
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'Do it my way or I will take my toys and go home'

Pretty much but it's not because he covets his toys. If we're in the context of him creating everything and thus owning everything, his way HAS to be the best way. We have to take it by faith, and from what we've read in a book that we believe to be inspired by him, that he is looking out for our best interests by making his will done. We don't only have the bible but also personal experiences that confirm his will is the best by following it.
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Old August 21st, 2013, 01:38 PM   #72
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Here's another thing to consider, hardly original but still worth debate....

Is it possible that since most religions claim their god is the one true God, that there really is only one God who happens to go by many names?
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Old August 21st, 2013, 01:40 PM   #73
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Here's another thing to consider, hardly original but still worth debate....

Is it possible that since most religions claim their god is the one true God, that there really is only one God who happens to go by many names?
You just told whiterhino to move on because he used logic in another religion thread, and here you go inserting logic into this.

Do as I say not as I do?
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Old August 21st, 2013, 02:10 PM   #74
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Here's another thing to consider, hardly original but still worth debate....

Is it possible that since most religions claim their god is the one true God, that there really is only one God who happens to go by many names?
I've considered that as well. Is it possible that God made himself known to different peoples of the world differently, and at different times, and that the various religions are the different peoples interpretation of what was presented to them?

Really, this is an attempt to answer the question; Of all the peoples of the world, why should we believe that one particular group got all the right answers while all the others were allowed to be led astray?
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Old August 21st, 2013, 02:32 PM   #75
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You just told whiterhino to move on because he used logic in another religion thread, and here you go inserting logic into this.

Do as I say not as I do?
Jim was using scientific logic.

This is theological logic, since we are arguing something that cannot be demonstrated empirically.


That, and its not often one get a solid chance to tell him to go away....
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Old August 21st, 2013, 02:53 PM   #76
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Jim was using scientific logic.

This is theological logic, since we are arguing something that cannot be demonstrated empirically.


That, and its not often one get a solid chance to tell him to go away....
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Old August 21st, 2013, 03:47 PM   #77
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Here's another thing to consider, hardly original but still worth debate....

Is it possible that since most religions claim their god is the one true God, that there really is only one God who happens to go by many names?
I have a co-worker who is a "spiritual person/ex-catholic/christian" and believes this, that all religions eventually lead to "heaven". However, we then were reading a book, called American Gods by Neil Gaiman, which features many gods (Odin, Oestre, Thor, Anubis, etc.) as regular people living on earth. We were discussing the book and we talked about a part of the book where the author had considered including Jesus as a part of the story, but decided not to. She agreed that it would be in poor taste, and would probably be too blasphemous for her to continue to read the book. WTF, it's ok to frame the other gods in good or bad light but not Jesus?

I actually agree that it would have been a bad idea to include Jesus, since a majority of the western world is Christian, it could have harmed book sales. ;)
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Old August 21st, 2013, 06:13 PM   #78
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This is why I limited my statement to 'One True God' religions, as comparing Norse, Greek, or Native American mythology and religion to Judeo-Christianity and Islam would be comparing apples and oranges.
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Old August 25th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #79
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Here's another thing to consider, hardly original but still worth debate....

Is it possible that since most religions claim their god is the one true God, that there really is only one God who happens to go by many names?
Just because multiple religions are monotheistic (one god) does not mean that they are following the same God of Christian Judeo faith. If it were so then the description of the one god would be similar; however, there are very few similarities between the religions... unless you are inferring that the one true god suffers from multiple personality disorder.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #80
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http://news.yahoo.com/mammal-evoluti...232510318.html

backs up what I said about every fossil being a "transitional fossil" because evolution is a continuous change.
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