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Old August 7th, 2013, 05:54 PM   #1
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Default Colo. apartment gun ban shows new danger for gun owners

http://www.examiner.com/article/colo...for-gun-owners


Residents of the Oakwood Apartments in Castle Rock, Colo., have until October 1 to get rid of their guns or they’ll have to move out, Will Ripley of NBC KUSA-TV 9News reported Tuesday.

A letter sent out to all tenants on August 1 has updated the “community policies” to state “firearms and weapons are prohibited,” and further stating “residents cannot display, use, or possess any firearms or weapons of any kind, anywhere on the property.”

The property management company, Ross Management Group (which displays "Equal Opportunity Housing" logos on its website), declined to comment to the media, Ripley reported, and the 9News legal analyst did not offer much hope for gun owners.

"The best thing this tenant can do is either move out or get rid of the guns,” Scott Robinson opined, adding “in most cases, courts have supported the rights of landlords to impose ‘reasonable regulations’ on tenants.”

How this could be construed as "reasonable" in any U.S. court, especially with the Supreme Court having specifically found a right to keep a gun in the home in two separate cases, is unclear, but this could be a case where a specific conflict between private property rights and the right of tenants to keep and bear arms is tested. And the video accompanying the 9News report indicates more such bans may be on the way.

If the prohibition was not a condition of the original lease, that may pose a problem for the landlord. Also, there are other rights where it has been ruled property owners have no lawful power to discriminate against in any contracts -- such as refusing to rent to someone based on race or religion.

It creates an interesting dilemma, because it divides believers in liberty along property rights lines. Even so, the ability of one party in a contract to unilaterally and retroactively change any and all terms and conditions of an existing agreement should trouble all.

In this case, Robinson’s advice may not be the best legal opinion to heed. Gun Rights Examiner will be reaching out to Second Amendment civil rights groups to see if they intend providing legal support to challenge this threat, as well as trying to identify specific individuals behind this ban, and if there are any additional individuals or groups acting the role of hidden hand behind them.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 06:06 PM   #2
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This could get interesting.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #3
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Even disregarding the right to own guns, how is it legal for them to change the terms of a lease mid stream?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:12 PM   #4
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Even disregarding the right to own guns, how is it legal for them to change the terms of a lease mid stream?
Probably some disclaimer on the lease to the effect of "Terms and conditions subject to change at any time."
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #5
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The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Cased closed.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #6
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The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Cased closed.
I agree... BUT... You also have property owners. Not a whole not different than stores, who, have the right to refuse service to somebody who lawfully possesses a firearm on the store property.

When you are renting, you are more or less subject to the desires of the property owner as long as there is proper notification. The people have the right to leave, and find other housing, or succumb to the property owner's wishes.

That's why I said this could get interesting. This would create case law that would set prescient pending the future laws suits that will inevitably come from this.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:11 PM   #7
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Don't ask, don't tell resurgence?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:30 PM   #8
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The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Cased closed.
Private property has the absolute right to decide if they will allow guns on their property, and nobody but the owners of that property can state otherwise. So if they say no guns, it's no guns, case closed.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #9
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Private property has the absolute right to decide if they will allow guns on their property, and nobody but the owners of that property can state otherwise. So if they say no guns, it's no guns, case closed.
Each dwelling is private property of the tenant no?
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #10
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Each dwelling is private property of the tenant no?
It is private property... of the owner.

nothing like making your complex a target for theives. cripes.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #11
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Default Colo. apartment gun ban shows new danger for gun owners

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Originally Posted by Immortal View Post
Each dwelling is private property of the tenant no?
I agree with this it's tricky to understand

Long story short, You sign a lease agreed upon by you and your landlord, the apartment is considered your property for the duration of the rental. If there are "Rules" or policies on the lease that infringe upon ANY of your constitutional rights while you are in your apartment or lease property, they are null/void and therefore unenforceable. Now, once you leave your apartment, that may be a different story. As everything that surrounds your apartment: the grounds that the apartment is on, apartment clubhouse, etc, can be regulated by the company because it is considered private property.

With that said: only governments, Federal, State or Local, cannot infringe on an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Gun owners are not a “protected class” and therefore, not subject to Fair Housing laws.

Hopefully we will see more case law on this, and lawful gun owners will be protected in situations like this.

Simple solution now would be save your money and buy a house.

Edit: I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on tv, but I am married to one and I sought her advice for the comment above.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #12
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Private property has the absolute right to decide if they will allow guns on their property, and nobody but the owners of that property can state otherwise. So if they say no guns, it's no guns, case closed.
For the 1st time, I have the sadly agree... The owner is setting his tenants up for problems IMO. Hopefully he get a bunch of liberal, welfare shitheads to move in...
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Old August 7th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cmetzg03 View Post
I agree with this it's tricky to understand

Long story short, You sign a lease agreed upon by you and your landlord, the apartment is considered your property for the duration of the rental. If there are "Rules" or policies on the lease that infringe upon ANY of your constitutional rights while you are in your apartment or lease property, they are null/void and therefore unenforceable. Now, once you leave your apartment, that may be a different story. As everything that surrounds your apartment: the grounds that the apartment is on, apartment clubhouse, etc, can be regulated by the company because it is considered private property.

With that said: only governments, Federal, State or Local, cannot infringe on an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Gun owners are not a “protected class” and therefore, not subject to Fair Housing laws.

Hopefully we will see more case law on this, and lawful gun owners will be protected in situations like this.

Simple solution now would be save your money and buy a house.

Edit: I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on tv, but I am married to one and I sought her advice for the comment above.
I am envisioning this type of relationship at your house

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Old August 7th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #14
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I am envisioning this type of relationship at your house

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Lmao that's pretty much how it goes minus the whole gay interracial thing of course. Trust me its hard being married to a lawyer I haven't won a argument in ten years.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #15
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Wow, way to paint a target on all the people who are still there after October 1.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by gofastbobby View Post
In this case, Robinson’s advice may not be the best legal opinion to heed. Gun Rights Examiner will be reaching out to Second Amendment civil rights groups to see if they intend providing legal support to challenge this threat, as well as trying to identify specific individuals behind this ban, and if there are any additional individuals or groups acting the role of hidden hand behind them.
Probably Oblabla. He did say he would use any means necessary.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmetzg03 View Post
I agree with this it's tricky to understand

Long story short, You sign a lease agreed upon by you and your landlord, the apartment is considered your property for the duration of the rental. If there are "Rules" or policies on the lease that infringe upon ANY of your constitutional rights while you are in your apartment or lease property, they are null/void and therefore unenforceable. Now, once you leave your apartment, that may be a different story. As everything that surrounds your apartment: the grounds that the apartment is on, apartment clubhouse, etc, can be regulated by the company because it is considered private property.

With that said: only governments, Federal, State or Local, cannot infringe on an individual’s right to keep and bear arms. Gun owners are not a “protected class” and therefore, not subject to Fair Housing laws.

Hopefully we will see more case law on this, and lawful gun owners will be protected in situations like this.

Simple solution now would be save your money and buy a house.

Edit: I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on tv, but I am married to one and I sought her advice for the comment above.
100% wrong, your leased apartment is not your property, the landlord does have the absolute right to tell you that you cannot bear arms on their property. Your wife/husband is 100% wrong on their advise on said subject. Where I think your lawyer is getting confused is around 4th amendment issues. During the duration of your lease a landlord may not enter your apartment without permission, the police must also have Permission from the tenate not the landlord, or a warrant. Your 2nd admendment is not protected due to the fact you signed a lease. It is the exact same as not allowing pets, BBQ, alcohol or any number of other things. Hell if the landlord said you are not allow to have a car, guess what, you cannot have a car on their property.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 10:37 PM   #18
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I hate to say this, but if they own the property, they make the rules. I would never live there, and i bet every robber close by would rob that place over the next since they know they wont get shot.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 12:24 AM   #19
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I see this getting challenged if it gets enough national attention. The issue is I highly doubt that anyone living there has the capital to launch a lawsuit, which will be in high court and long and drawn out. If the national attention I large and second amendment activist get involved it will set a new case law for sure.

Personal property is ruled by the owner. I don't see this case as that open and shut. I see things being brought up as endangering the renters. There are endless ways this could go. I know HCH says its open and shit, with his multiple rulings as a Supreme Court justice that have set case law I believe he know what he is talking about.

My personal feelings on this are somewhat mixed. I support the whole constitution unlike the majority of Americans. This makes the case very gray. (I know justice HCH you have the answer). I hope in the end what comes of this is nothing more than this being a small contained problem. If it goes to a higher court nobody comes out a winner.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #20
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I just read on their web site it's getting thrown out

http://m.9news.com/topstory/article?a=349123&f=1272
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