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Old August 14th, 2013, 09:52 PM   #241
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None of the naysayers acted like adults and they still won. My favorite was the old lady saying she still rides ORVs and the other lady that was like okay. I've had high tension power lines running through my yard for the last 30 years and I don't have cancer. Hahahaha. Living in the middle of no where you would think they support this when "they all claim to own ORVs and have nothing against them".
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #242
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I pray to the gods that waste management moves in on that land now.


thanks to those that put in the time and effort.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #243
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I pray to the gods that waste management moves in on that land now.


thanks to those that put in the time and effort.
Oh that would be so great and rewarding.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #244
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I pray to the gods that waste management moves in on that land now.


thanks to those that put in the time and effort.
Why do you say that?

LAY SOME PIPE
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #245
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Big thanks to Jim Kitson for maintaining the relationship with OCPR and Rowe Engineering. We got to make a meaningful contribution to the effort because of it and hopefully something we can build on on the future. Jim K. Jim M and Dana all put their best arguments out in favor of the park, but the only people on our side were folks afraid of something worse than an ORV park moving into the gravel mine. I think the OCPR guys are still interested in finding a different location.

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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #246
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Why do you say that?

LAY SOME PIPE

Because a 300' mound of Sea Gull infested stink would remind them everyday, that maybe those hoodlums with their ORV's might not have been so bad.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #247
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Is there talk of WM putting a landfill in on that area where said ORV park was going to be, or are we wishing bad things upon the idiots of Oxford

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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #248
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Because a 300' mound of Sea Gull infested stink would remind them everyday, that maybe those hoodlums with their ORV's might not have been so bad.
ding ding ding.

and then in 30 years we could have another wonderful ski bump to ride down
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:38 PM   #249
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Or at the very least start mining it again. Hello noisy and polluting. The funny thing is they were all referencing the map saying how ORVs and horses don't mix. Okay the map wasn't drawn to scale morons.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #250
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Great idea Benny, looks like keeping your cool really won the day...same thing with island lake too...keeping your cool with these people does nothing but enforce the fact that you are a wolf in sheeps clothing. The squeaky wheel will always get the grease. Can you ever give me an example where being calm, collected and speaking with a voice of reason has ever won....didn't think so. You have to loose your cool, you have to play with emotions...
Shut up charlie. at least benny showed up and showed support all you do is run your fucking mouth about how things should have been done yet you did not help ONCE... If you think the squeaky wheel tactic could have worked so well then maybe you should have came to voice your opinion at the meetings not here on this board.
and since you mention being louder about it im pretty sure I rubbed one of the board members since he quoted specific verbaige from my speech and than made a negative comment about out of towner's speaking in his town.

Jim, I sat with Jon and a few others after the meeting and he is still 100% for a SE area. he realizes that there is a demand and need and that demand and needs have not yet been met. This is the end for Oxford. This is not the end for OCPR involvement.

At the end of all of this I have realized that even tho we did not win this battle of location this is still a victory for the ORV community. we have not only the local government wanting to be involved but we also have the state. and the two entities are working together. That in its self is a huge victory for us.

Thank you VERY much for all the people that showed up and have helped out during this process.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #251
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What about the old Ford plant off Wixom Rd? I know it may not be topigraphically correct but just a thought. I just had to leave tonight before I was carried out of there. I went in trying to see both sides and then draw a conclusion but those people just really got to me and if I would have got up to speak it would have made the off road community look worse in their eyes so I felt it best to leave. Haha.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #252
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The mounds was our kiss of death. they see videos and think we are all the same. My speech tried to shed some light on the types of people that are active in this sport. I debated if I should hit hard on the mounds being an irrelevent comparison and a shit hole but wanted to take a different approach. although I question my approach now... I really don't think there was any way of changing the image they have of us. I actually would have like to see it go to a full township resident vote. I think it would have been different.
If we move forward at any new locations we need to get are act together to combat the negative image the mounds has created. and I can only hope that the Michigan DNR noticed how much that place killed this deal and does something about it
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:52 PM   #253
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I'm kinda kicking myself in the ass for not speaking. But what I had to say has already been said, and all the loud ass antis kept spewing bullshit even after they were told they were wrong. Didn't anyone else get pissed when the head guy asked them if they were gonna shove it down their throat and keep trying, after it was voted down?
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Old August 14th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #254
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I'm kinda kicking myself in the ass for not speaking. But what I had to say has already been said, and all the loud ass antis kept spewing bullshit even after they were told they were wrong. Didn't anyone else get pissed when the head guy asked them if they were gonna shove it down their throat and keep trying, after it was voted down?

The whole board was a joke they voted it down and one board member says thats not on the agenda to vote tonight. and they basically said to bad we voted it NO. the meeting was not even supposed to be for a vote today. they sucker punched the county big time on that. I don't understand the ins and outs of politics but it seems like that part went down incorrectly how can you make a decission on what 30 people say. there was actually 10 people there from the township some lived on the property line and they were for it. so that makes no sense to me.

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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #255
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Well, the 'fat lady has sung her last song'!

I started to suspect things might go awry real quick when the Twp Board Supervisor asked for us to recite our address first thing. Then the Trustee on the end had a note pad which he was markng off like days on the wall in a prison cell.
Final tally was 32 residents againt, 5 neutral and 5 for. Not one of us 'out of towners' speaking made a hill of beans difference. In fact, the final residents comments started to get beligerant of the fact we were coming in from out of town and telling them how to run their community.
I'm not sure if EVERY resident of Oakland Township who was a fourwheeler spoke up and at least said 'I support' the testing would have made a difference or not. The Township Board voted unamiously to NOT allow testing to proceed.
What was obvious was the fact that the proposal should NOT have been even presented without some sort of cursory noise level testing to at least have some data to show. Even if it wasn't complete it would have been a step towards completely understanding the ambient noise level issues should the DNR or OCPR ever decide to venture into development of a facility in S.E. Michigan.
Everyone is still in a bit of shock as a request for a vote wasn't suppose to ocur until September after they put together a formal request for a 'conditional approval' for testing. This caught everyone totally off guard including DNR, OCPR, and ROWE.

And then there's the Mounds. We heard it over and over both nights. The image that they portrayed gave us a HUGE black eye as a user group. Notice Silver Lake was not held up like an 'ugly baby' like the Mounds was.
The fact they apparently are not doing noise level testing is another aspect that will have to be taken up with them SOON. I plan on addressing that.
We also have to talk to them on stereotyping fourwheelers 'ripping up' the land with our big trucks.

If I remember anything more pertinent but from what I know of available vacant land in Oakland County, this was probably our last straw.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #256
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What about the old Ford plant off Wixom Rd? I know it may not be topigraphically correct but just a thought. I just had to leave tonight before I was carried out of there. I went in trying to see both sides and then draw a conclusion but those people just really got to me and if I would have got up to speak it would have made the off road community look worse in their eyes so I felt it best to leave. Haha.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #257
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Just keep fighting for our sport and sorry I could not be there.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #258
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The way this sounds to me is the local residents don't want to lose their illegal but "private" place to play. If anybody lives in the area, be vigilante about reporting any trespassers.
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Old August 14th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #259
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Jim Im pretty sure even their official count was BS because the way I seen it the 5 they had as undecided were undecided on the park but they were in favor of the sound testing, which is what the meeting was about so there was 10 in favor of moving forward.
Not that any of it matters anyway. the board members already had their own opinions so it did not matter what anyone said. the one guys ending speech was even typed out so you know he already had his opinions and the other guy at the end was at every other meeting complaining. As soon as I seen him walk in and sit at the board table I knew we were screwed!!!

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Old August 15th, 2013, 03:00 AM   #260
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Well I'm glad I had to leave early on for a family issue. It sounds like it was painful.

My suspicion is OCPR was caught totally off guard with the resistance. Usually they go in with a "we're going to put a nice gazebo & soccer field in you neighborhood" and people eat it up. The resistance to motorized recreation, especially motorcycles is stronger than they anticipated. I think they thought the testing phase was a slam dunk......... because there was no risk and no down side. But, to people who don't want to use common sense there is no talking sense. I also think that the typical government way of doing things, proposals, etc doesn't fit this mold. There needed to be way more up front investigation at the local level to see if this would be accepted in addition to good support data gathered.

I too hope it becomes a landfill or the owner ramps excavation back up.

RE the Ford Wixom plant, NO! It's flat and offers no ORV experience.

RE the OCPR continuing on with this, I highly doubt it. There is no large tract of land within Oakland County that would work (that I am aware of), and no matter where you go, you are still inside one of the top 5 (I would guess) populated counties in the state. What does that mean? Residential opposition.

Mounds? What can I say? It's a shit hole and was more than a black eye. Again, more prep by OCPR would have helped. They could have contacted the township board in Harrison and Jackson (or wherever Bundy is) to get local governmental impact results. What has happened with property values, complaints and noise in those areas? No favorable data was offered to support it. OCPR's fault? Yes and no. This was their first go at a facility like this and they didn't know how to present it. The "happy this will be cool" approach didn't work.

Yell and scream to get attention? No. It's not my style, never has been and never will be. And to say taking the high road doesn't work? Well maybe in politics but in my world, it has gotten me further and well respected in my career. I think I'll stay that way, thank you very much. If that's how politics works, I'm glad I'm not in it.

To the people saying thanks, it's nice but not necessary. I would rather you say you are now aware how important it is to be involved to make a difference. If we had the attention at the front end that we have now, maybe we could have helped steer OCPR and also gather valuable data that would have won this battle. In this case, probably not, but moving forward, if we ever get the chance, please get involved early on. If OCPR wants to move forward again, I'm sure I could organize a meeting with them and you the users for better awareness and planning. I still think it sucks that none of the local residents (if there are any) spoke up in support.

The one up side to the Mounds is that I am proud of the rock courses we were able to create there. It's just too bad that they don't get any use due to the rest of the facility.

Well, it's now 4 am, my mom is dying of cancer, my brother just got diagnosed with cancer, this project failed and I can't sleep. It's been a shitty week.
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