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Old July 26th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #1
WisdomWarlord
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Default 8x8 Dual Dually Brainstorming

I'm definitely doing a 4x4 conversion with a D60 on my 93 F350 CC dually.  But, I'm entertaining also running duallys in front too.  So I'd have an 8 wheel drive truck. This thread is to flesh out the idea.  Will it work? Why or why not? If not,  what do you think will have to be done to make it work anyway?

Here is my thought process.

My first reaction to duallys in front is "that's silly"  "it'll be too wide"  the tires won't fit under the fenders" and "it won't steer for crap".
But then I started thinking...
My tire of choice is the Goodyear Wrangler MT/R.  I don't want the truck lifted very high over stock,  if at all,  because I need on-road highway manners, and old people and children need to be able to get in and out without a ladder!  Because of those considerations,  I'll go with 235/85/16's,  which are 32" tall.  Stock tires are 215/85/16, so it's less than a 1.5" increase. Any wider and I can't run duallys in the back,  the tires could rub sidewalls with a heavy load or low tire pressure.  I want to be able to use the same tire on front and back.  When I build my flatbed trailer,  it will take 8 lug rims and  the same tire,  just so any rim and tire will fit anywhere I need one.
And,  imagine how popular I'll be with the tire guy when I order 16 tires!  (8 for the truck,  6 for the trailer  and 2 spares)



My thought about "too wide"  is gone because the truck is a dually,  it's already just shy of 8' wide in the back.  It shouldn't be too hard to match that on the fronts.

The fenders will have to be extended out to cover an additional 11" per side.  I'm imagining something like the fenders on a Ford 600 utility truck.  It might actually look cool,  and I have to replace the rusted out fenders in my truck anyway.

As for steering,  It has the turning radius of a battleship as it is,  I doubt that duallys in the front will really matter.
It would increase steering effort,  but there's a mod to increase power steering assist,  so I bet that mod will negate the extra effort.

I can't think of other cons to the project,  other that fuel economy,  but it's a 4wd diesel dually weighing in at close to 8000lbs loaded.  I doubt 2 more tires will matter :-D

The pros are
Wider stance adds stability
Extra tires add weight capacity (if I need to carry an extra 6k lbs on the hood,  well,  at least the tires will be up to the task!)
Better offroading traction
Redundancy. I could have 4 flat tires and still drive safely

As for reduced road pressure giving less  traction,  I have been thinking about that. A stripped down AWD GMC Typhoon (early 90's S15 Blazer with a twin turbo 4.3l V6) weighs 3800 lbs,  has 4 10" wide tires,  and has enough traction to run a consistent 14 second 1/4 mile.  My truck weighs a bit over double that,  will have a bit under double the tire on the road.  Shouldn't that give me roughly the same traction as a Typhoon? And in snow,  I can run chains on all 8 tires if needed.
And,  pro #1, Omg how intimidatingly awesome would that look!

I have only seen one double dually truck on the Internet.  A black dodge.  And very very little info about it.

The trucks stock length is 22', and after cab and bed customizations it could easily be 28' long.  At that length,  I can't imagine (to my n00b mind)  doing any real offroading.  But I can imagine several scenarios where I'll need as much traction as I can muster,  and what better way that an 8x8 diesel truck!  :-P

So,  what are your thoughts and ideas?

Thanks
Keith HP


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Last edited by WisdomWarlord; July 27th, 2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #2
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Put down the pot.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #3
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I am all for helping figure this wonderous project out with you. I once thought about doing this same thing but my truck burned to the ground a day after I bought a 14 bolt and D60 front. I was going to flip the 14 bolt and cut and weld the 60 spindles and shit to it with Hydraulic steering behind the axle. RCV and reid knuckles are also a must for this to work. Electromagnetic drive slugs and portals would make it totally sweet. I would put extra seals in the axles to keep the axle fluid in it. Probably gonna need at least 4.56 gears and a spool too. DO you think amsoil or Royal Purple? An Artec truss or two and a bellows vent. Really neat plexi diff cover with leds behind it. About 7 degrees of caster and heims or tie rods, not sure bout that.

Would you use a Dodge axle or Ford?

Leaf Springs right?

And a track bar and traction link.

What wheel bolt pattern?

Gundrilled shafts and neckdown relocators.

Extra heavy duty breaks and of course twin beadlocked dually wheels.

Last edited by firehawk; July 26th, 2013 at 11:24 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #4
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If you succeed at this, you will hate it.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #5
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Old July 27th, 2013, 12:01 AM   #6
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believe nuggets, he has built some crazy stuff!
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Old July 27th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
believe nuggets, he has built some crazy stuff!
I've got more in the works too!
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Old July 27th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #8
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If you think you may need to carry 6k on the hood maybe, otherwise I don't think it would be useful.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 02:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
If you succeed at this, you will hate it.
Nuggets, can you help me understand why you say that? Not being contradictory, just really wanting to know. Especially from people who build crazy shit :p


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Old July 27th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #10
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What about all the extra leverage placed on the knuckles, stubs, bearings, kingpins or ball joints, ect? I doubt that any of those front end parts would last too long. But if you're serious, you should contact Cerial on here. He's always building sweet shit just like this.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 07:46 AM   #11
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It seems like it would wander really bad when up were driving down the road.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 07:52 AM   #12
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Pretty well thought out and well stated question. I can't really imagine why you would want to do it but, what the hey, if you like the idea, go for it.

Tab's comments about the load on the front components have merit. Even wider tires in the front will put more load on wheel bearings, much less the extra width of the dually. I think your biggest problem will be the need to cut your wheel wells. Yeah, I get that you want to go with extended flares but you will kick the tire back into your rocker panel pretty hard.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 08:20 AM   #13
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the only way its going to work is if you have 0 caster, 0 camber and at that point it will drive like shit anyway, if you were thinking of driving this on the street with duals in the front save the bus load of nuns and drink bleach. now if your thinking of using it off road its pointless with a 32 inch tall tire on a 60.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #14
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Ugh! :banghead::thumbdown::)

I didn't think much of the loads on the the steering components because those same concerns would be in play with running big offroading tires, and those problems all have solutions, but I didn't even think about the wheel alignment needs! That's the same reason Indy cars don't run the same tires on the front and back. The backs are so wide that the alignment settings to run them up front would chew the edges of the tires up so bad they would have to pit way too often.

Oh well! Thank you for thinking for me guys! :)

That of course brings up another problem, so I'm off to start another thread.

But, you have to admit, it woulda been one bad-ass looking rig!

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Old July 27th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomWarlord View Post
Nuggets, can you help me understand why you say that? Not being contradictory, just really wanting to know. Especially from people who build crazy shit :p


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Duals in the rear would not be a big deal but duals in the front creates a lot of problems with steering geometry. The moment arm from the ball joint (a factor in leverage and steering input) would be massive compared to using a single wheel. This could be offset by having a shitload of backspacing with the front rims but then you would be running into problems with wheel well and tire clearance. Another downfall of using a dual wheel is that mud (and rocks, sticks, small animals, etc.) will get jammed in between the two wheels causing problems with traction, bead breaking, tire failure or ?.

So there is my no flaming input as to why you would not like have a dual wheel rig. The performance would suck.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #16
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Look at the pictures. Its possible... You might even recognize the guy.


Right off the EORP website.
http://extremeoffroadparts.com/pictu...-mud-runs.html
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Old July 27th, 2013, 09:01 PM   #17
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Reminds me of the GM parade of progress rigs. Those were two wheels per corner. And in the 50's.
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Old July 28th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #18
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I know it can be done with a deuce and a half. Take some extra tires/wheels and they bolt right up. Steers and drives like shit. Did it with Kaiserjeep's deuce once. Didn't get pics, but here..



Is this the dodge?

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Old July 28th, 2013, 05:52 AM   #19
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If your going to run 8 wheels you should just run 4 axles.
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Old July 28th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post
If your going to run 8 wheels you should just run 4 axles.
That's the easy way out
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