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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:14 AM   #21
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Fyi a degree in mechanical engineering is not a talent:p
No doubt, but for fawks sake, if you cant keep up with the times then that is too bad. Jobs are not going away because of improvements in technology. The auto manufacturers are not trying to eliminate jobs, they are trying to make better cars for less money using technology. It will continue this way FOREVER.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:25 AM   #22
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Rediculous. Evolve or die. If driving is your only talent / hope in life then be prepared to buy a taxi. The replacement jobs will come from maintaining, improving, manufacturing, running the robots, etc. Unreal, let me guess, you are a Union member?
Geesh, no need to get your panties all bunched up. Do you work for Ford?
How is pointing out the ramifications of automation “unreal”? I’m no Luddite, though I think a lot of new technology is poorly executed (take Ford’s no knob radio for example). It is not a question of if we should or shouldn’t automate because it is inevitable. What we should be doing is trying to figure out what we will do with the masses of people displaced by automation, especially those who are limited in what jobs they can do.


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Problem is, there are some people who just can't 're-educate' into a tech job. High schools don't even offer shop math anymore. The entire job market can't be all engineers and health care workers.
Exactly.

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No doubt, but for fawks sake, if you cant keep up with the times then that is too bad. Jobs are not going away because of improvements in technology. The auto manufacturers are not trying to eliminate jobs, they are trying to make better cars for less money using technology. It will continue this way FOREVER.
WRONG and WRONG. People are expensive and temperamental. Every manufacturer on the planet would replace a human if there was a machine that could do the job. As more and more smart machines, robots, etc are made the price will drop allowing more manufacturers to replace people. Simple as that.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:35 AM   #23
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Geesh, no need to get your panties all bunched up. Do you work for Ford?
How is pointing out the ramifications of automation “unreal”? I’m no Luddite, though I think a lot of new technology is poorly executed (take Ford’s no knob radio for example). It is not a question of if we should or shouldn’t automate because it is inevitable. What we should be doing is trying to figure out what we will do with the masses of people displaced by automation, especially those who are limited in what jobs they can do.
Why should we have to figure out what to do with people that have had their jobs taken over by robots? Jobs don't get taken over secretly by robots overnight. If I was worried about losing my job because of technology I would take it upon myself to learn a new trade.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 09:36 AM   #24
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Problem is, there are some people who just can't 're-educate' into a tech job. High schools don't even offer shop math anymore. The entire job market can't be all engineers and health care workers.
First statement total bullshit, almost all people can re educate themselves, more programs now than ever to help people get an education, yeah it costs more, but very possible,
My grandma was a single mother who lost her job at the post office, instead of sitting on her ass she put herself through nusing school with three kids,
And this was in the 60s, So I dont want that excuse

Second statement totally true, the problem is that all these descions are "profit" based. So there is a huge element of greed involved from which that is to be expected.

Decent paying jobs with good benefits need to be available to everyone in this country....if not say goodbye to the middle class
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:01 AM   #25
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Fyi a degree in mechanical engineering is not a talent:p
yes it is. Anyone who has dug themselves through a 4 year technical degree has taguht themselves problem solving skills, time management, team working skills and most importantly and commonly overlooked, they have taaught themselves how to teach temselves. That is important. Anyone with a technical degree will have to learn, process and implement new information on a daily basis. None of that shows up on your degree, but that is what makes you a successfull person in ANY job market.

It also shows you have drive and determination to put yourself through hell for 4 years and not quit. It is the absolute first level of screening out the week and uncommited.

All of those are talents.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:05 AM   #26
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Second statement totally true, the problem is that all these descions are "profit" based. So there is a huge element of greed involved from which that is to be expected.

Decent paying jobs with good benefits need to be available to everyone in this country....if not say goodbye to the middle class
You're right, companies are in business to provide jobs, not make money.

Devent paying jbos with good benefits ARE available to everyone in this country. I just made 4 job offers yesterday. You just have to be willing to be qualified for them.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #27
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First statement total bullshit, almost all people can re educate themselves, more programs now than ever to help people get an education, yeah it costs more, but very possible,
My grandma was a single mother who lost her job at the post office, instead of sitting on her ass she put herself through nusing school with three kids,
And this was in the 60s, So I dont want that excuse

Second statement totally true, the problem is that all these descions are "profit" based. So there is a huge element of greed involved from which that is to be expected.

Decent paying jobs with good benefits need to be available to everyone in this country....if not say goodbye to the middle class
Obama 2016!!!!!
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:01 AM   #28
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Obama 2016!!!!!
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:29 AM   #29
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Why should we have to figure out what to do with people that have had their jobs taken over by robots? Jobs don't get taken over secretly by robots overnight. If I was worried about losing my job because of technology I would take it upon myself to learn a new trade.
We don’t, but do you think that massive unemployment will not affect you? Should we try to plan for the future or just let it steamroller over us like Mr Green wants?

As smart machines evolve and costs come down there would be very few jobs safe. Take self driving cars as an example. Sounds great, yes? So where will that lead? Trucks that can run 24/7 with no need for a driver? What about all the taxi drivers, chauffeurs, bus drivers, all the people currently paid to drive, what will they do? Sure some will stay on, like maybe UPS guys to carry the packages, but no doubt at lower pay levels since less skill is needed. That is just one area where smart machines will displace a lot of humans.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 11:38 AM   #30
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Fucking evil businesses. Making money is so evil and wrong.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #31
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I love engineering, they let me blow the whistle sometimes.

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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #32
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:44 PM   #33
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We don’t, but do you think that massive unemployment will not affect you? Should we try to plan for the future or just let it steamroller over us like Mr Green wants?

As smart machines evolve and costs come down there would be very few jobs safe. Take self driving cars as an example. Sounds great, yes? So where will that lead? Trucks that can run 24/7 with no need for a driver? What about all the taxi drivers, chauffeurs, bus drivers, all the people currently paid to drive, what will they do? Sure some will stay on, like maybe UPS guys to carry the packages, but no doubt at lower pay levels since less skill is needed. That is just one area where smart machines will displace a lot of humans.
Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about the reality of what it takes to do those things, and where they can and cannot function, what they cost, how many jobs are created to realize that vision, etc.


Do you work on self driving cars? I am aware of at least one company that is, because I work there. Do you understand how many engineering jobs are created developing even the most basic limited systems for, say, automated highways. The jobs improving the highways, adding signage, sensors, improved maps, to allow smart cars to navigate. To produce and test the increase electronics and software required. You really think that an automated taxi service has any prayer of working in Manhattan?

There will always be jobs. Job sectors shift, people need to shift with them.

Companies exist to make money. GOOD companies work to create jobs that are good, so people want to work for thme, and they get good talent. It is a bit of a dance, but never lose sight of the fact that companies are for making money, whether its GM, or a lemonade stand.

I find it funny how many people are supposedly opposed to socialism, or welfare, but then want to artificially prop up and hand out jobs which are overly expensive and inefficient.

That way of thinking worked somewhat back in the days, even 20-30 years ago, but with globalization, the rise of education levels in other parts of the world, the reduction in shipping times and cost, and improvements in communication, etc, you CAN NOT survive if you are not competative with the global market.


You can really see a divide with people, and their opinions. You will see people who work with this every day, and understand innovation, and change, and work with it, and you see the people that refuse to change, and therefore resist, to try to hold on to their little job as long as possible.


If you look at the idea of putting robots as drivers, I see it as delivering a better product. They can do 99% percentile driving moves, without fear or risk of injury. And can do it repeatably. That delivers better results. Honestly, driving robots are not new. They have existing in some capability for quite a while. I worked in a thermal chassis dyno in my first job. I drove the car 6 hours a day to an exact speed. I did it in -40F temps, and I did it in 120f with so much sun lamps that the car roof was smoking once. They had robots that could do the same thing better than I could, but they were expensive. But as the price comes down, you can use a robot to do a more repeatable job, in a shitty environment that people don't want to work in.

Someone has to design those robots. Someone has to build them. Someone has to sell them. Someone has to support them to the users. Someone has to install them. Someone has to develop the programs that they will follow. Someone has to actually put that into the robot, and tune the program. Those are shifts in the labor.

That is how this country will survive, or will fail. Jobs will shift from less skill, to more skill. You trade the guy who's a human crash test dummy for more skilled jobs. Or you become a crappy city full of unemployed crash test dummies.


There are a lot of people who need to wake up to that fact. To realize other countries aren't stupid. They are catching up, or passing the US in manufacturing and engineering capabilities, while people here whine about it, and scream 'they took 'r jobs!'....
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #34
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Do you work on self driving cars? ....
self driving cars.....just what the guberment wants. because those cars will be computer/web operated, the feds will know your every move. can you imagine them turning off your car just because you donated some $$ of a non-approved {currently conservative} organization or because you are overdue on your payment to the IRS or on your student loan???????

fuget about it
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #35
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Spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about the reality of what it takes to do those things, and where they can and cannot function, what they cost, how many jobs are created to realize that vision, etc.


Do you work on self driving cars? I am aware of at least one company that is, because I work there. Do you understand how many engineering jobs are created developing even the most basic limited systems for, say, automated highways. The jobs improving the highways, adding signage, sensors, improved maps, to allow smart cars to navigate. To produce and test the increase electronics and software required. You really think that an automated taxi service has any prayer of working in Manhattan?

There will always be jobs. Job sectors shift, people need to shift with them.

Companies exist to make money. GOOD companies work to create jobs that are good, so people want to work for thme, and they get good talent. It is a bit of a dance, but never lose sight of the fact that companies are for making money, whether its GM, or a lemonade stand.

I find it funny how many people are supposedly opposed to socialism, or welfare, but then want to artificially prop up and hand out jobs which are overly expensive and inefficient.

That way of thinking worked somewhat back in the days, even 20-30 years ago, but with globalization, the rise of education levels in other parts of the world, the reduction in shipping times and cost, and improvements in communication, etc, you CAN NOT survive if you are not competative with the global market.


You can really see a divide with people, and their opinions. You will see people who work with this every day, and understand innovation, and change, and work with it, and you see the people that refuse to change, and therefore resist, to try to hold on to their little job as long as possible.


If you look at the idea of putting robots as drivers, I see it as delivering a better product. They can do 99% percentile driving moves, without fear or risk of injury. And can do it repeatably. That delivers better results. Honestly, driving robots are not new. They have existing in some capability for quite a while. I worked in a thermal chassis dyno in my first job. I drove the car 6 hours a day to an exact speed. I did it in -40F temps, and I did it in 120f with so much sun lamps that the car roof was smoking once. They had robots that could do the same thing better than I could, but they were expensive. But as the price comes down, you can use a robot to do a more repeatable job, in a shitty environment that people don't want to work in.

Someone has to design those robots. Someone has to build them. Someone has to sell them. Someone has to support them to the users. Someone has to install them. Someone has to develop the programs that they will follow. Someone has to actually put that into the robot, and tune the program. Those are shifts in the labor.

That is how this country will survive, or will fail. Jobs will shift from less skill, to more skill. You trade the guy who's a human crash test dummy for more skilled jobs. Or you become a crappy city full of unemployed crash test dummies.


There are a lot of people who need to wake up to that fact. To realize other countries aren't stupid. They are catching up, or passing the US in manufacturing and engineering capabilities, while people here whine about it, and scream 'they took 'r jobs!'....
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Old June 19th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #36
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self driving cars.....just what the guberment wants. because those cars will be computer/web operated, the feds will know your every move. can you imagine them turning off your car just because you donated some $$ of a non-approved {currently conservative} organization or because you are overdue on your payment to the IRS or on your student loan???????

fuget about it
Already happens. OnStar, GPS, the engine ECU data logging, etc.
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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #37
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yetti works out there, he drives cars over snowbanks from the blizzard of 78 for testing still
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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:12 PM   #38
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First statement total bullshit, almost all people can re educate themselves, more programs now than ever to help people get an education, yeah it costs more, but very possible,
My grandma was a single mother who lost her job at the post office, instead of sitting on her ass she put herself through nusing school with three kids,
And this was in the 60s, So I dont want that excuse

Second statement totally true, the problem is that all these descions are "profit" based. So there is a huge element of greed involved from which that is to be expected.

Decent paying jobs with good benefits need to be available to everyone in this country....if not say goodbye to the middle class
Sorry, but you are wrong. i work with a guy who is an excellent machinist- but has failed miserably at moving up to CNC. Programming is not part of his skill set and probably never will be. And not for lack of trying, it's a pretty healthy pay increase so he put in a lot of time trying to learn, but he's not getting it. However, he can make anything the CNC guys can, just not as fast, obviously.

I can cite many more examples, but the point is- some people are best 'working with their hands'
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Old June 19th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #39
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Sorry, but you are wrong. i work with a guy who is an excellent machinist- but has failed miserably at moving up to CNC. Programming is not part of his skill set and probably never will be. And not for lack of trying, it's a pretty healthy pay increase so he put in a lot of time trying to learn, but he's not getting it. However, he can make anything the CNC guys can, just not as fast, obviously.

I can cite many more examples, but the point is- some people are best 'working with their hands'
Im best at sitting on my ass and eating cheetos but that doest pay the bills does it?

My point was if he wanted to he could go get a education in something different he could.

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Old June 19th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #40
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Im best at sitting on my ass and eating cheetos but that doest pay the bills does it?

My point was if he wanted to he could go get a education in something different he could.
You are seriously equating a machinist with 30 years experience to sitting on your ass and eating cheetos?

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