Does running a 60 front/9" rear make sense? - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 9th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #1
xj bmx
SLAYER!!
 
xj bmx's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-27-07
Location: Detroit, Mi
Posts: 527
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to xj bmx Send a message via Skype™ to xj bmx
Default Does running a 60 front/9" rear make sense?

So I've been planning on building a 44/9 set for my Cherokee and by planning meaning I have a set and the 9" is completely rebuilt and done, I just need to order some shafts. The 44 is just stripped down at the moment with no money into it yet other than I sandblasted and powder coated the drivers knuckle.

My plans were to basically build them as gnarly as possible to handle 37s and to keep the weight down as much as I could. But the longer these are taking to finish the more I'm starting to question the reality of that and what I want to use it for. It may be because I've been spending too much time on pirate and seeing rigs with semi float rears snapping at the flange, and 44s with blown shafts taking out lockers (in was planning on going with RCVs) and this happening on 33s and 35s. But i like to think these are the guys that just point and bounce the revlimiter in rock gardens, where as I'm the type to plan my lines very carefully and mosey my way up.

The plan for the Jeep is to be able to drive it to what ever trails I want and back, whether its out to Moab or just the Mounds. Making it OK on the road is simple (well you know kinda) but the hard part for me is the off road abuse. So far I've only wheeled it about 10 times at the Mounds within the last 6 or 7 (sheesh) and that was on stock axles (30/8.25) with an welded diff, and 31s and the only problems I've had was two alternators and a water filled diff. So I can't really get a good feel of how things would go on 37s and on trails I've never been.


Any way, so I was thinking of just selling what I got, giving up the dream of an anorexic Jeep with good diff clearance and going with 60s or 60/14b and just drag them over everything.

OR, keep the 9" in the rear and build up a 60 in the front? I've read one thread that a dude mentioned it would be a good combo since you can steer the low hanging 60f and with the higher 9" you won't have to worry about it as much?

Sorry about the long winded life story, its just been on my mind the last month, and I've exhausted my brain.
xj bmx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #2
chevotass
Senior Member
 
chevotass's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-02-06
Location: goodrich
Posts: 6,782
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to chevotass
Default

Im currently running a 60 front and 9" rear. if you don't mind upgrading the 9" I think its worth it. go 35 spline on both.
chevotass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #3
chasetheface123
Senior Member
 
chasetheface123's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-13-09
Location: Boyne City
Posts: 1,023
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

You can build a 9" just as strong as any other axle out there for the most part. If I didnt have a 60 in the rear already, I would be doing a 60/9 combo.
chasetheface123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #4
VAhasnoWAVES
Dirty South
 
VAhasnoWAVES's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-17-11
Location: Lake City/Mount Pleasant
Posts: 573
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

did you post this on NAXJA as well?

9" can be built sufficiently strong.
front 60 can be converted to 5 on 5.5.

check out John Ds build:
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthr...=222777&page=6
VAhasnoWAVES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #5
knaffie
Senior Member
 
knaffie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-13-08
Location: home is where I hang my hat
Posts: 1,916
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Make sure you consider that the 9" has an extra low pinion, which sucks for driveshaft ground clearance and driveshaft angle.
knaffie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 10:32 AM   #6
974x4Taco
Flex Is OverRated
 
974x4Taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-19-06
Location: Battle Creek
Posts: 2,125
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

It comes down to cost in my opinion.

If you don't mind throwing some serious coin at the 9" and are ok with having all custom parts its a great choice.

If you want cheap and beefy and the ability to find parts in any junk yard in the country then a 14 bolt is a better option.

Another axle to consider is the ford 10.25.....they are similar in strength to a 14 bolt but have way better ground clearance
974x4Taco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 10:56 AM   #7
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,055
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

A shaved 14b has better ground clearance than a 60 or 9" that has not been shaved but they are heavy! Look at the TMR 15 bolt kit. The one I did for the buggy in my avatar only had a touch less ground clearance than a d44. The TMR kit will require a ring gear that has been turned down in a lathe though. If I decide to build axles for my tj I will probably build a shaved semi float hp60 for the rear and either a hp44 up front or a shaved hp60. I would run 37" tires max and try to keep it very street able. I realize the hp60 in the rear is weaker than a lp60 but I believe it would be worth the trade off to gain the driveshaft clearance and angle. I also don't see me pushing the hp60 to its limit with 37s. It also helps that I have a bent hp60 sitting behind the barn that I could retube and put 9" flanges on fairly cheap. I was in the process of building this combo for my last tj but then decided to go buggy and now I traded the buggy off to go back to a jeep so back to my old plans.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #8
xj bmx
SLAYER!!
 
xj bmx's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-27-07
Location: Detroit, Mi
Posts: 527
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to xj bmx Send a message via Skype™ to xj bmx
Default

sufficiently
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasetheface123 View Post
You can build a 9" just as strong as any other axle out there for the most part. If I didnt have a 60 in the rear already, I would be doing a 60/9 combo.
That's good to hear, I originally panned on keeping everything stock ish, so if I have an issue I can still find parts where ever I am at. But same thing as the build goes I'm questioning that also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAhasnoWAVES View Post
did you post this on NAXJA as well?9" can be built sufficiently strong.front 60 can be converted to 5 on 5.5.check out John Ds build:http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthr...=222777&page=6
Haha yes I did, after I posted it here I sort of expected 2 pages of "won ton, and done" haha and thank you for the link!
Quote:
Originally Posted by knaffie View Post
Make sure you consider that the 9" has an extra low pinion, which sucks for driveshaft ground clearance and driveshaft angle.
That I did, I have a RuffStuff pinion guard on it now, and i planned on stretching it an inch or to to help with the angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 974x4Taco View Post
It comes down to cost in my opinion.If you don't mind throwing some serious coin at the 9" and are ok with having all custom parts its a great choice.If you want cheap and beefy and the ability to find parts in any junk yard in the country then a 14 bolt is a better option.Another axle to consider is the ford 10.25.....they are similar in strength to a 14 bolt but have way better ground clearance
Price for me doesn't matter to much, obviously I'm not trying to drop $5k on a junk yard housing and still be semifloat. But since the truck has been down for a bit over a year saving for a few bling parts isn't much of a problem at this point, right now I have about $1500 into it mostly on gears and all new bolts, and stutd. The only think not new, left is the housing and 3rd member, I've yet to order shafts. I also was hoping to get a strange 3rd member down the road.The availability of the 14b is sort of why I was considering it, but I do think that's a tad overkill for 37s on a light xj but then again, I have no real world experiences with it. Hell I've never seen one in person other than on the JY haha.I haven't thought about the 10.25, but I think I read they have minimal aftermarket? Is that also referred to as the sterling? Or corporate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
A shaved 14b has better ground clearance than a 60 or 9" that has not been shaved but they are heavy! Look at the TMR 15 bolt kit. The one I did for the buggy in my avatar only had a touch less ground clearance than a d44. The TMR kit will require a ring gear that has been turned down in a lathe though. If I decide to build axles for my tj I will probably build a shaved semi float hp60 for the rear and either a hp44 up front or a shaved hp60. I would run 37" tires max and try to keep it very street able. I realize the hp60 in the rear is weaker than a lp60 but I believe it would be worth the trade off to gain the driveshaft clearance and angle. I also don't see me pushing the hp60 to its limit with 37s. It also helps that I have a bent hp60 sitting behind the barn that I could retube and put 9" flanges on fairly cheap. I was in the process of building this combo for my last tj but then decided to go buggy and now I traded the buggy off to go back to a jeep so back to my old plans.
I've seen the full out shave kits for the 14b but I didn't know it helped clearance that much! I've always read that its 6hrs of cutting for about 7/8" of clearance. But that may only be the normal non ring gear turned deal. I'll go back to the searches and see what comes with shaved 14s.What about shaved fronts?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note™
xj bmx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #9
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,055
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21370803637.272901.jpg
Views:	301
Size:	104.0 KB
ID:	106868Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21370803648.055625.jpg
Views:	297
Size:	174.2 KB
ID:	106869Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21370803657.838864.jpg
Views:	199
Size:	145.4 KB
ID:	106870

Look up TMR customs.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #10
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,055
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

If memory serves from centerline of the axle to bottom of the shave was around 3/8" less ground clearance than a stock hp44. The other plus is it is a nice smooth surface to slide on.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #11
974x4Taco
Flex Is OverRated
 
974x4Taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-19-06
Location: Battle Creek
Posts: 2,125
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Yes Sterling 10.25....mine in stock form has ~.25" less ground clearance than my buddy's shaved 14 bolt with the turned down ring gear and everything. You can buy whatever you want for them from the after market.....i have less than a grand in mine with 5.38's, all new bearings, welded, disc brakes, cover, ect


Last edited by 974x4Taco; June 9th, 2013 at 04:31 PM.
974x4Taco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 05:39 PM   #12
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,055
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

IMO I would do a 14b over 10.25 for a few reasons. The first reason would be the extra pinion support. Second would be lockers are cheaper. Last but not least is the ease of setting up the gears in the 14 compared to 10.25.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 08:25 PM   #13
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,377
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Default

Check out the true hi-9 website & read up on the comparisons. I'm running a hi pinion 9" & it has held up well to the abuse. Of course I'm not a 1% er. Lol
I have no regrets.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 09:05 PM   #14
974x4Taco
Flex Is OverRated
 
974x4Taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-19-06
Location: Battle Creek
Posts: 2,125
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
IMO I would do a 14b over 10.25 for a few reasons. The first reason would be the extra pinion support. Second would be lockers are cheaper. Last but not least is the ease of setting up the gears in the 14 compared to 10.25.

Imo the only actual advantage there is the pinion support....which isn't a huge deal in a lighter, moderately powered rig like a 6cyl jeep or my Toyota. The gear setup may not be as easy but it's still on the easy side when you compare it to something like a Dana axle. As far as locker cost....depending on your choice there may be no savings and any money you do save is quickly negated by the cost and work of the shave kit / pricier turned gears that are required to get the same clearance.

They are both great axles....my decision came down to this: if i built a pimped out shaved 14 bolt and somehow fucked up the housing (cracked it, bent tubes, spun tubes, ect) i was stuck with a bunch of work and possibly money building a new one....if i fukc up mine i pickup a new one for next to nothing and it'sready to run....no work required (to the housing)
At the end of the day you can't really go wrong with either imo
974x4Taco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #15
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,055
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

If you shave a 14b and a 10.25 you can only possibly gain 1/8" of ground clearance with the 10.25. The ring gears are only 1/4" difference in size between the two of them and the ring gear is the limiting factor when shaving. With that said I'm pretty sure you don't need a shaved ring gear 14b to match the clearance of a stock 10.25.
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #16
974x4Taco
Flex Is OverRated
 
974x4Taco's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-19-06
Location: Battle Creek
Posts: 2,125
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

My saying that is based off measuring my buddy's shaved 14 bolt using Ballistics kit and machined ring gear (same principal as the Tmr kit you posted) vrs. My 10.25.....i don't remember the exact number but iirc it was less than .25". I will measure them again next time i'm at the shop
974x4Taco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2013, 02:47 AM   #17
93yj06unlimited
Senior Member
 
93yj06unlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-02-09
Location: Scotts, Mi
Posts: 522
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

"Sorry about the long winded life story, its just been on my mind the last month, and I've exhausted my brain. "

I know what you mean I have a d44 and 9" out of a 70's Ford with chromoly shafts, but the tires that came on the 93Yj I bought are 42x14-15 IROKs. I have been hashing over getting tires in the 37-38" range or just selling my current axles and getting a d60 and 14 bolt or a d60 and Sterling 10.25 as some here have suggested. I have run about every scenario there is and still can't decide what makes the most sense. Financially concerned my current axles have Moser shafts already and don't really need anything but 37's or 38's may still be pushing the d44, I believe the 9" is strong enough. So I feel for you I know first hand what you're going through.
93yj06unlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2013, 06:39 AM   #18
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,377
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Default

The d44 is weak. The 9" with Moser shafts will hold up no problem. Like I said before, check out the hi-9 website. Very imformative.
__________________
GLFWDA member since 1979.
Member Southern Michigan Rock Crawlers.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2013, 04:11 PM   #19
93yj06unlimited
Senior Member
 
93yj06unlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-02-09
Location: Scotts, Mi
Posts: 522
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I am not worried about my 9" but if I go full width in the front I may as well do so in the rear. My axles are narrowed by Moser.
93yj06unlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2013, 05:39 PM   #20
liv2mx
i like jungle gym's.
 
liv2mx's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-10-05
Location: silver lake and up in the air building america
Posts: 11,266
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

For a budget guy can't beat a 14 bolt.the old sterling was a
Sweet axle and came w 513 gears.can weld to it and lots of ground clearance. Only thing I have never broke and is still original is my 14 bolt.cheap cheap beef! Weld it and do a disk break kit and you have a bombproof axle for a few hundred bucks. Make sure and weld the tubes on all 14 bolts though.they will spin the tube if you don't.
liv2mx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.30551 seconds with 83 queries