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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #41
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Dang I didn't know people really cared that much for a historical plate. If you don't have one, is your vehicle not considered historical?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:40 AM   #42
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Dang I didn't know people really cared that much for a historical plate. If you don't have one, is your vehicle not considered historical?
Legally, yes.

And if you do have one, your 1988 Dodge Lancer can be considered Historic, since its 25 years old.



The plates are also used to allow limited use of vehicles that do not meet basic safety laws, like windshields, seatbelts, lights, sirens, etc. Those vehicles would not be legal to drive, except if they have a historic plate.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #43
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First, I think none of your trail Jeeps classify as a historic vehicle, due to their age. Your could on one of the K5s.
1977 cj5
1979 cj7
1979 cj5

Quote:
257.20a “Historic vehicle” defined.
Sec. 20a. “Historic vehicle” means a vehicle which is over 25 years old, and which is owned solely as a collector's item and for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, and similar uses, including
mechanical testing, but is not used for general transportation.
what is the definition of exhibitions
what is the definition of and similar uses

to me, if I'm not using it for normal daily to/from work, or would consider it similar uses, driving it to work a couple time in the summer to show it off, or
what ever, how is that now "similar use".

when you drove the deuce to pick up your son from school, or to work, you did it to show off, and to enjoy the limited occasions that you drive the vehicle, how was that not "similar use"?


Quote:
If its a club event, yes. So, say meeting @ Nikkos coney with the club, as a pre-planned meeting, or to a club meeting, you can drive your army truck.

Exhibitions, like car-cruise night at Culvers by the palace, or driving your army truck to be exhibited in the Things-That-Go show for kids, that is OK.

Tours like the hot rod power tour (*at least while in Michigan.....)

Parades are OK, so you can drive your army truck to and in the Waterford memorial day parade.

Mechanical testing, OK, people use this as their catch all. You know if you are telling the truth or not. Like, Gee officer, it only has this problem when I am in the dairy queen parking lot, so I need to keep gonig there to check it. Really? You know if you are telling the truth or lying.





My policy has always been: you know the rules, if you know you aren't street legal, and get busted, you had it coming, own up and take your lumps. Don't go onto facebook and complain that Don't cops have something better to do than bust people with too much window tint? Chamillionaire would have found that one rather ironic...



How do you know that it is not a club activity? Similar to, say, a classic corvette meet @ Milan dragway or something.
because I've seen where some of these vehicles stay by the dunes and know the people do not belong to any clubs.


Quote:


I understand the intent, I have no issue with people trying to save money. I do not believe that you are going to somehow have enough people to post events to have any real legal protection from it. Its more of something to try to convince yourself that you are in the right.

Are you really going to have so many people on this site (which isn't a club, btw, just a website) or create so many organized events in your area, that you can attend to drive your vehicle that much more.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by swampjeep View Post
1977 cj5
1979 cj7
1979 cj5
.
You don't have any of those anymore, though. At least 2 of the 3 you got rid of before they were of historical age, too.

the 77 would have been eligible in 2002. The 79 5 and Murphys Law would have been eligible in 2004.

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Originally Posted by swampjeep View Post
what is the definition of exhibitions
what is the definition of and similar uses
There are legal precedents for these things. I have found, when fighting them in court, they usually have a good idea in their head what they are...


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to me, if I'm not using it for normal daily to/from work, or would consider it similar uses, driving it to work a couple time in the summer to show it off, or
what ever, how is that now "similar use".
It means what the law says. The vehicle is owned solely as a collectors piece, and the historic plate to take it to shows and such. Driving to work, even once in a while on sunny days, is still routine general transportation, not a car show.

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Originally Posted by swampjeep View Post
when you drove the deuce to pick up your son from school, or to work, you did it to show off, and to enjoy the limited occasions that you drive the vehicle, how was that not "similar use"?
I broke the law when I picked up my son from his preschool graduation, as I stated in the earlier post. Every time I drove it to work, it was to attend a car show at work, or a preplanned club function.


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Originally Posted by swampjeep View Post
because I've seen where some of these vehicles stay by the dunes and know the people do not belong to any clubs.
Then like many many people out there, they are technically breaking the law.


I do not life my life on the thought that if so and so did it and didn't get caught, then its OK to do it. Others do. To each their own.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Legally, yes.

And if you do have one, your 1988 Dodge Lancer can be considered Historic, since its 25 years old.



The plates are also used to allow limited use of vehicles that do not meet basic safety laws, like windshields, seatbelts, lights, sirens, etc. Those vehicles would not be legal to drive, except if they have a historic plate.
Are you sure about this? Are you telling me that a 1970 (whatever) can't run a standard license plate?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
You don't have any of those anymore, though. At least 2 of the 3 you got rid of before they were of historical age, too.

the 77 would have been eligible in 2002. The 79 5 and Murphys Law would have been eligible in 2004.
the 77 went to Ed's in about 08-09, the cj7 wasn't dismantled till after 2004, so I had 2 of the 3 at times they "could" have been plated as historic


Quote:

There are legal precedents for these things. I have found, when fighting them in court, they usually have a good idea in their head what they are...
in who's head? the courts head?

this is just like the DNR writing tickets for begin on a road that is impassable, or many many other tickets that when taken to court, get throw out. The law must be clear, and not jut an idea in someone's head. Stating "other similar" opens it up for interpretation. That will not hold up in court with any decent lawyer.



Quote:

It means what the law says. The vehicle is owned solely as a collectors piece, and the historic plate to take it to shows and such. Driving to work, even once in a while on sunny days, is still routine general transportation, not a car show.
disagree, sometimes driving to work can be an exhibition in itself.

Quote:


I broke the law when I picked up my son from his preschool graduation, as I stated in the earlier post. Every time I drove it to work, it was to attend a car show at work, or a preplanned club function.




Then like many many people out there, they are technically breaking the law.


I do not life my life on the thought that if so and so did it and didn't get caught, then its OK to do it. Others do. To each their own.
I do agree with this last statement.
just because others get away with something does not automatically make it OK
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #47
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Are you sure about this? Are you telling me that a 1970 (whatever) can't run a standard license plate?
No, you can use a regular plate, but you need to meet those couple basic rules..

For example, its required by law to have a windshield. So, if you have an old car that didn't have one, and don't want to retrofit one, I believe you are required to title it as historic.

257.708a Windshields; goggles, eyeglasses, or face shields.
Sec. 708a. A motor vehicle shall not be operated on the public highways of this state unless it is equipped with a windshield of sufficient dimensions to protect the driver and occupants from insects, other airborne objects, and highway surface water and debris, when the motor vehicle is moving forward. A farm tractor, other implement of husbandry, and historic vehicles as defined in section 803a are exempt from this section.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #48
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Don't go onto facebook and complain that Don't cops have something better to do than bust people with too much window tint? Chamillionaire would have found that one rather ironic...
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #49
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in who's head? the courts head?

this is just like the DNR writing tickets for begin on a road that is impassable, or many many other tickets that when taken to court, get throw out. The law must be clear, and not jut an idea in someone's head. Stating "other similar" opens it up for interpretation. That will not hold up in court with any decent lawyer..
Yes, the judge's head, since they are paid to make those judgements, based on other precedents and interpretations. Law is all about interpretations.

I don't see that comparison. If a road is passable or impassible, that is subjective.

A parade, car show, club event, tour, or similar Show is pretty obvious if its a car show or not.

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disagree, sometimes driving to work can be an exhibition in itself.
Yeah, an public nudity can be an art exhibition, let me know how that works....
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #50
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Hey, ya saw it! I wasn't sure if you were around anymore.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #51
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Not evrey insurance place is like that. Perhaps you just have a crappy agent.

When I was single, I thought that same idea, to cancel the insurance when I wasn't using it. But my insurance (I believe AAA at the time) let me put it into storage mode, and that was $1 a month. And by keeping it on the policy, it retained my multi-car discount of $30 a month...
Perhaps.

But I've had 4 different agents since I've been driving and my quotes always listed PLPD on each vehicle, not a single PLPD and then add-ons for each vehicle.

However, I just did an esurance quote and it came back as you described- PLPD and then the collision, theft, etc for each vehicle. (It was funny seeing the quote for the F150 at $0.00)

Problem again is to switch I need to make a $350 down payment. Urgh. Next week.

Oh, and if I buy a clown car, can I get hysterical plates for it?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #52
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Hey, ya saw it! I wasn't sure if you were around anymore.
Right
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
I understand the intent, I have no issue with people trying to save money. I do not believe that you are going to somehow have enough people to post events to have any real legal protection from it. Its more of something to try to convince yourself that you are in the right.

Are you really going to have so many people on this site (which isn't a club, btw, just a website) or create so many organized events in your area, that you can attend to drive your vehicle that much more.


Well I don't know, whats the harm in trying?

As far as "fair"?
Is it fair that we pay the highest gas taxes in the country and our Governor's answer is to tax us even more? And he is still proposing this when it has been published that The State of Michigan is now operating with a Tax Surplus?
Is it fair that the State now penalizes me if I buy my plates later than a senseless time limit, I think its 90 days after your birthday? So now the state is somehow fiscally damaged if i don't renew my Dressers plates when they expire in late November, and buy them in the spring when i need them?
Is it fair that when I buy the plates for one of my other vehicles its cost is based on the sticker price? Why? Are you kidding me? This was not the deal when I originally purchased and licensed these vehicles.
Don't forget, this Authentic plate is titled to only one vehicle, it can not be transferred to a gravel train. I pay all the license fees, Insurance etc.
This is a LEGAL licensing policy offered to us from The State of Michigan. I don't understand all of the defensive and aggressive posturing for simply suggesting to try and organize a group or collectors and restorers to better legally observe the law. If you are not handy enough to restore a vehicle, or interested in collecting a beautiful old car and allowing its legal use, why do you care?
As far as not being able to afford it, forget that. Its amazing to me how upset the Sheeple can get when someone suggests taking advantage of a legal state established license for the purpose of enjoying our older and loved vehicles.
If you do not own a historic vehicle, why the heck do you even care? Keep buying your plates, apparently the State needs the money.

This is copied from the states web site. I am simply trying to test the waters here to see if there may be a core of individuals that may wish to somehow organize events to better allow the use of our Authentic Plates, That's All!

To qualify for an authentic license plate, the vehicle must be:

26 or more years old
Owned solely as a collector's item
A vehicle registered with a regular historic plate or authentic historic plate cannot be used for general transportation. The vehicle can only used for participating in historical club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, car shows, swap meets, and similar uses.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #54
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Back to the original posting....

Don't we already post up those things? Isn't there already a forum dedicated to meet and greets, and one for trail rides and events? It doesn't say that the events have to be specific to old cars, just that they have to be events.

Woodward cruise, Hot Rod Power Tour, or a Big Rig Gig for the kiddos, etc, are not only limited to historic events. There's lots of things like this:

Jeep & 4x4 Nite at Castaways! - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

That covers tons of thursdays for you.

So there's already lots of things posted here, and other sites. Could you give some specific examples of what more you are looking for?


Or, reversing the question to a scenario, that happend recently to us: A few weeks ago, there wa s aday thought to be rainy, but turned out to be a beautiful afternoon. And grandma had our youngest daughter overnight, so we were just 4 total that night. So when I got home, I had us pile in the Jeep (mine is a 1982 CJ7 with an SOA, 33s. btw, intermediate era CJ5s are awesome ), we went on the spur of the moment to Jimmy Johns, and then to Dairy Queen.

How would this plan help me in that scenario to use my Jeep the way I want to use it?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:45 AM   #55
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If you are not handy enough to restore a vehicle, or interested in collecting a beautiful old car and allowing its legal use, why do you care?
As far as not being able to afford it, forget that. Its amazing to me how upset the Sheeple can get when someone suggests taking advantage of a legal state established license for the purpose of enjoying our older and loved vehicles.
If you do not own a historic vehicle, why the heck do you even care? Keep buying your plates, apparently the State needs the money.
Both my Jeeps could be plated as historic (1969 CJ6, and 1982 CJ7), and I have previously plated vehicles as historic (1971 Kaiser-Jeep M35A2 Duece & a half)... my old intermediate 1975 CJ5 levis/renegade could have been historic, or my 3a, heck, even my 85 Toyota could have been... and I have grown up all my life around historic plated vehicles (Packards, Duesenbergs, others) and seen what they can/cant be used for. I have plenty of experience with this kind of stuff. You think an CJ5 is bad, try the insurance on a 400-point 1929 Duesenberg boattail speedster! lol.


I don't like people trying to bend the rules, because eventually, when enough people do it, they slam the door shut and everyone else loses.

Myself, I did not like the restrictions of a historical plate (not authentic, but a standard white/blue historic) on my truck. I didn't want to try to invent/justify reasons to drive it. I want to drive it when I want to drive it, where I want to drive it. And ethically, I know the intent of that law, everyone does, and I know if I'm within or outside the bounds of that intent.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:57 AM   #56
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What are the differences in your insurance costs for historic vs non historic. Either should otherwise be the same conditions, like limited usages, not used for commuting, same theft/collision/value.

What is the cost of a normal plate? I know the historic plate is $30 for a 10yr plate.
Bump!

I know mine, I paid $59 for my plate, and about $150-$200 for 6 months insurance. Normal plate, 1982 CJ7, non-daily driver, limited to I think 4 or 6k miles per year. So it costs about $35 a month to drive it.

I would expect a place like Hagerty will give you just a good of a rate as your current policy, without the historic plate, or even cheaper than your present insurance. So I don't see where $4 a month in plate fees really changes things that much.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #57
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[QUOTE=Haggar;3416462] You think an CJ5 is bad, try the insurance on a 400-point 1929 Duesenberg boattail speedster! lol.



OUCH!!!
I can only imagine, but please don't tell me that you then gleefully licensed and insured that car as a daily driver just so you could get an ice cream cone guilt free (other than the calories!).

What a shame that such a beautiful car as you had could not be utilized for a pleasure ride without paying a Kings Ransom to do so.

Come on, we pay enough in taxes, we are not using vehicles such as these for "general transportation". The State devised these plates exactly for the purpose of you keeping that Boattail alive, and My CJ-5 As well. I'm not trying to screw anyone, quite the contrary.

And I would love to see that 400-point 1929 Duesenberg boattail speedster! WOW! They don't get any better than that!!

Thanks for your feedback
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:35 PM   #58
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Dirtbag instead of complaining about how much you pay in taxes and looking for a way to cheat the system, take your voice to the polls and do it the right way
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:01 PM   #59
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All you guys bitching, you should see the price tag I pay to license my motorhome.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:03 PM   #60
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All you guys bitching, you should see the price tag I pay to license my motorhome.
Being a 1%er ain't cheap.
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