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Old February 14th, 2013, 08:55 AM   #41
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It all depends on the price of the diesel. If they are going to add 8k to the MSRP like they do in a 3/4 ton then it makes no sense at all.

Right now I pull the Jeep with a 1/2 Silverado with a 5.3L. While it does pull it fine every time I get to a hill it can not maintain speed. If I wanted to have it screaming at 4500 RPM it would do it but I will not beat on my truck that hard.

Bottom line is my truck works for now but I would like the extra power from time to time. I have not pulled anything with one of the new Hemi engines yet and I may find that handles everything I need it to do just fine. It really all just comes down to cost.

If you compare a new Silverado with the max trailer package they add just under $3,700 to the MSRP. If Dodge can add a diesel for around $4,500 that doesn't seem like a bad trade off.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 08:57 AM   #42
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I towed a grand cherokee at 65 mph and got 12 mpg. If you told me you were going 65 I might believe you, in fact I would, but at 78, I am not buying.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. You had an older ford that never really got good fuel economy empty to a newer chevy that can do pretty good on the freeway empty and while towing. My best tank was 20.4 mpg all freeway.

My friend has the same truck as me and he got about 17 mpg towing a TJ to Silver Lake last summer and we were doing about 65mph.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 09:03 AM   #43
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You are comparing apples to oranges here. You had an older ford that never really got good fuel economy empty to a newer chevy that can do pretty good on the freeway empty and while towing. My best tank was 20.4 mpg all freeway.

My friend has the same truck as me and he got about 17 mpg towing a TJ to Silver Lake last summer and we were doing about 65mph.
LOL my best tank was 23 mpg empty, actually I had 5 guys in the truck, 5 bikes adding wind drag, and about 1,500 lbs of gear in the bed of the truck (including the bikes).

I've towed with duramax's and I know they get good mileage empty.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #44
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It all depends on the price of the diesel. If they are going to add 8k to the MSRP like they do in a 3/4 ton then it makes no sense at all.

Right now I pull the Jeep with a 1/2 Silverado with a 5.3L. While it does pull it fine every time I get to a hill it can not maintain speed. If I wanted to have it screaming at 4500 RPM it would do it but I will not beat on my truck that hard.

Bottom line is my truck works for now but I would like the extra power from time to time. I have not pulled anything with one of the new Hemi engines yet and I may find that handles everything I need it to do just fine. It really all just comes down to cost.

If you compare a new Silverado with the max trailer package they add just under $3,700 to the MSRP. If Dodge can add a diesel for around $4,500 that doesn't seem like a bad trade off.
You can't maintain speed?

My 2009 towed a 1 ton handicapped van to nuggets, we maintained 65 mph at about 3,000 RPM up the ziluakee bridge, I expected a 5,000 rpm assualt, but the truck held 4th gear and 65 mpg no problem at all.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #45
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My truck is a 99 it has the lowest horsepower/torque of all 5.3L engines.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 09:30 AM   #46
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My truck is a 99 it has the lowest horsepower/torque of all 5.3L engines.
fair enough. my 2001 didn't hold speed quite as well.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #47
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turns out i was wrong, just talked to him again. v6 diesel, same as the GC, made by VM, backed by the ZF 8 speed auto. Doubt there is a chance of the manual...he says
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Old February 14th, 2013, 10:39 AM   #48
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GM is following suit. They are looking into putting the "D-max" engine (3.0L Best selling Isuzu Diesel in japan) into Colorado’s, and smaller suv’s. Peppy little engines.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 10:49 AM   #49
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How do you figure?

The mileage in my 7.3 dropped to nearly 12 mpg with just one jeep behind it, and typically down to 10mpg with most loads.

My half ton 5.3 silverado's have all averaged 8-12 towing.

I don't hear about too many people who get more than 12 towing anything, gas or diesel. Most trucks with a load behind them (say towing jeeps) are usually right around that 8-12 mpg mark. Gas or Diesel.
Diesel being more efficient and powerful used to mean better mileage in previous diesels. Many of the diesels in the last 10 years have been going at this torque war between Ford, GM and Chrysler. Most of them from the factory aren't getting much better mileage than their gas counterparts.


It's not always the case though. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler were putting smaller underpowered V8s into their trucks, a large majority of real world fuel mileage was less than the larger more powerful V8 engines.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #50
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Several years ago when we designed & built the test stands for the last Ford diesel it was designed with the capability to test a V6 diesel (4.4L IIRC) that was going to be available in the F150. Ford since pulled the plug on that program and I believe the latest upgrades have done away with the V6 capability.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:35 AM   #51
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Its the same 3.0 v6 that's being offered in the Grand Cherokee.

And it'll probably start at a $45k base price with the diesel.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #52
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turns out i was wrong, just talked to him again. v6 diesel, same as the GC, made by VM, backed by the ZF 8 speed auto. Doubt there is a chance of the manual...he says
Manuals will be a thing of the past shortly, market demand is damn near nonexistent
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Old February 14th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #53
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So Serg thinks diesel tons will sell? And even though Chrysler already had Cummins design an engine for the tons Serg is going to put a VM Motori (what ever the f that is) motor in it?? That ought to sit well with all the loyal Dodge/Cummins customers. This ought to be fun

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This thread just happened with the cruze.

I think there were a LOT of people who would have jumped all over this idea.........
  • When diesel was cheaper than unleaded
  • when diesels were able to get better mileage with out being emissions choked
  • if the diesel was offered at a reasonable upgrade price
  • when oil wasn't priced through the moon so the oil changes didn't kill you
  • when diesels were fairly simple and reasonable to repair
  • when gas engines couldn't make reasonable torque/hp for towing
  • before the eco boost
  • when 1/2 tons got worse mileage than 3/4 diesels

A diesel 1/2 ton with todays emissions bullshit, in my eyes, just isn't going to make enough power and get enough mpg's to make people all giddy to pay the extra cost. Add in the fact that power isn't your limiting factor in towing with a half ton truck and there you have it.....at least those are my thoughts.
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This window of opportunity for the 1/2 ton diesel was in my opinion from around 1998ish-2008 when the diesel truck craze was in full force, the 12 valve cummins and 24 valves were proving to make huge horsepower and really good mileage, GM announced the duramax which was a huge improvement over the 6.5, ford had the 7.3 dialed and introduced the super duty, and everyone was thinking man, a little brother to these motors in a half ton and we could see 30 mpg, still haul a solid half ton truck sized load, and puff black smoke all over.......

I'd be curious to see what diesel sales look like in the 3/4 and 1 ton truck market now that DPF and urea and all that other stuff is standard complicating and choking out engines. Maybe its not as bad as we think since the aftermarket still can do DPF deletes and the like.....but at the cost of your warranty on a 6-8k upgraded motor.....
As far as deletes go the EPA is cracking down on emission defeating add ons. Cease and desist orders and big fines being are being levied on diesel aftermarket companies. If you do delete your truck keep the original parts just in case they need to go back on. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...y-EPA-for-500k
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Last edited by Brods; February 14th, 2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: For accuracy and to keep GM from from having a stroke
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Old February 14th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #54
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So Serg thinks diesel tons will sell? And even though Chrysler already had Cummins design an engine for the tons Serg is going to put a Fiat/GM motor in it?? That ought to sit well with all the loyal Dodge/Cummins customers. This ought to be fun
GM? GM doesn't own a stake in VM Motori anymore.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 01:24 PM   #55
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Diesel being more efficient and powerful used to mean better mileage in previous diesels. Many of the diesels in the last 10 years have been going at this torque war between Ford, GM and Chrysler. Most of them from the factory aren't getting much better mileage than their gas counterparts.


It's not always the case though. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler were putting smaller underpowered V8s into their trucks, a large majority of real world fuel mileage was less than the larger more powerful V8 engines.
Your point? Irrelevant, todays diesels aren't more fuel efficent than the gas counterparts, they are simply more powerful.

Again, you mentioned it will get better mileage than a hemi towing.

I highly doubt it will get noticeably better mileage, espescially at the added cost up front and the added cost at the pump negating any benefit whatsoever.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 01:28 PM   #56
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seems like they are playing competition with themselves the have the 300hp v6 in the ram that does well over 20 mpg, if they are doing the diesel for fuel mileage
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Old February 14th, 2013, 01:32 PM   #57
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Your point? Irrelevant, todays diesels aren't more fuel efficent than the gas counterparts, they are simply more powerful.

Again, you mentioned it will get better mileage than a hemi towing.

I highly doubt it will get noticeably better mileage, espescially at the added cost up front and the added cost at the pump negating any benefit whatsoever.
It is irrelevent with today's offerings. Efficiency per HP, diesels are more fuel efficient. There is simply more energy to be had from a gallon of diesel then there is from a gallon of gas.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 01:40 PM   #58
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It is irrelevent with today's offerings. Efficiency per HP, diesels are more fuel efficient. There is simply more energy to be had from a gallon of diesel then there is from a gallon of gas.
No, your comment was irrelevant to all diesels. They typically drop just as bad as gas motors when towing/loaded. The advantage is they can get better unloaded mileage, and have more power.

3/4 gasser = 12-15 unloaded 8-11 towing
3/4 diesel = 15-20 unloaded 8-12 towing
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Old February 14th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #59
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GM? GM doesn't own a stake in VM Motori anymore.
Fixed. Must have misread an article or caught an old one since this Dodge 1/2 ton diesel has been on and off for many years now.
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Old February 14th, 2013, 02:09 PM   #60
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No, your comment was irrelevant to all diesels. They typically drop just as bad as gas motors when towing/loaded. The advantage is they can get better unloaded mileage, and have more power.

3/4 gasser = 12-15 unloaded 8-11 towing
3/4 diesel = 15-20 unloaded 8-12 towing
Was the weight identical, gearing identical, tranmission gearing identical? It makes no sense that a diesel would drop close to 50% in fuel efficiency when the gas engine would only drop 33%.
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