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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:05 PM   #41
kickstand
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Originally Posted by kickstand
So how do you feel about the shootings that took place in CT?It's terrible, no other way to say it. How do you feel about the fact that someone who legally owned firearms lived with a psycho and her guns were accessible enough to be used to kill school aged children that are the same age as my own children?[COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]That's a tough call. Obviously, he knew where she kept her guns. Were they locked? Did he have the combo? I don't know. What I do know is that the guns were not his, they were stolen. Regardless of who owned them, they were stolen.[/COLOR]

How would you feel if that psycho made his way into your place of employment and shot you up before you had time to defend yourself? (Oh, that's right, you carry so you'd be able to wild west shoot him up before he ever got to you right?) [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]We all take a risk fo some physco going nuts. But, if it were to happen, I would rather "someone" at our place of employment be armed rather than all of us being totally vulnerable[/COLOR]
I don't want you unarmed either, not one bit!!
Yeah, you're right, everyone should be able to buy whatever they want and it should be no matter if they proved they were competent to own the gun, or drive the car, or anything else it should just be a free for all right? [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]Right to own the gun? In most cases, people have to pass a background check right now. IMO, protecting my family is one of the most important roles I have as a father/ head of household.[/COLOR]Again, no disagreement, but for the good guys like you and I, I don't mind following a stricter process, to weed out some of the not so good guys.

News flash, you may have been born when the constitution was written, [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]sorry, not that far back [/COLOR]but if you haven't noticed things have changed a bit. [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]No, I don't think they have. We had tragedies and mass murders long before either of us was born. Do you know that the biggest mass murder in Michigan was not with a gun? It was with a bomb back in the 1920's. So, no, things have not changed all that much. Rather, there is more media attention and quite frankly, more of us.[/COLOR] Adaptations of our rights isn't a terrible thing as long as they are not being taken away. [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]correct[/COLOR]I understand your point, mine is that I don't want our rights taken away, but I do not have a problem with carefully regulating how we allow that right to be exercised to try and prevent additional tragedy and satisfy the left by saying we have enough regulation without losing our rights.

There is no reason to take our rights away, but if someone gets his hands on your guns because you aren't being a responsible gun owner by all fucking means that should be trackable and you should be responsible for it.[COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]Nope, if they are stolen, they are stolen. Period. You take something from me without my permission, you are a low down thief. Don't blame someone else's wrong doing on me when they violated me.[/COLOR]I agree to a point, but if everyone gets to just wash their hands of the issue then why even lock your guns up? Your wife is smart enough not to shoot herself, you don't have young kids, lets just say you were dumb enough to leave your house unlocked while you and the wife were down on the dock and someone walked in and grabbed all of your unlocked guns and then went and shot up the neighborhood, you don't feel you would bear any responsibility? If not thats fine, thats where to some extent we differ in our opinion on responsible firearm ownership.

This kind of attitude in my opinion is what is wrong with this country and its extremism of the two parties recently and why nothing can be accomplished. [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]Maybe if we went back to spanking our kids and teaching them right from wrong instead of hugging them and saying "it's OK Johnny, you are a good boy", things would not be so bad.[/COLOR]
I beat my kid daily just for you Seriously though I do not disagree with this sentiment at all, but thats not reality unfortunately.
Your thought is its my right and I'm not changing even if we have a criminal problem with guns.
The lefts thought is take all guns away.

How about the left says we'll let you keep any and all guns you want to buy if you allow some regulation, and the right says, hey, we'll make you a deal, we'll increase the regulations on guns, but we still get to buy whatever we want so long as we do a better job of making sure those guns don't get into the wrong hands, and if they do we will increase the penalties for the guns owner so people act more responsibly with their guns and how they store them when they are not around [COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"]Nope, I don't agree. I will not take responsibility for a thief.[/COLOR]......wow look we comprimised and no one lost any rights, we enhanced everyones safety from psycho's, and we all still get to buy whatever guns we want.










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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:14 PM   #42
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Maybe Congress should color code more........look how well Kickstand and whiterhino are getting along.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:19 PM   #43
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I don't know, he's a leftist commie. He changed my nice plum to aggressive red.

On the issue of someone coming into my home, take a look at the Castle doctrine. Anyone entering your home without permission is considered a threat. Therefore, if they enter my home as a threat and steal from me, THEY are 100% responsible for anything that they steal from my home.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:22 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
I don't know, he's a leftist commie. He changed my nice plum to aggressive red.

On the issue of someone coming into my home, take a look at the Castle doctrine. Anyone entering your home without permission is considered a threat. Therefore, if they enter my home as a threat and steal from me, THEY are 100% responsible for anything that they steal from my home.
Im a libtard!!

Castle doctrine is great, but theives done care, I understand your point but im certain you would feel remorse....
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:50 PM   #45
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I guess so. I'll help you out:

Ninth Amendment – The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Tenth Amendment – The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Hhaaaahha, do you even have a fucking clue what those two amendments mean? I would say not after reading your example
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:55 PM   #46
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Im a libtard!!

Castle doctrine is great, but theives done care, I understand your point but im certain you would feel remorse....
I don't think so. If a thief doesn't steal from me, he will from the next guy. Sad if someone gets hurt? Yes. Sad because a thief stole a weapon from me? Only that I wouldn't get my weapon back. Otherwise, all blame is on the thief.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:17 PM   #47
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I don't think so. If a thief doesn't steal from me, he will from the next guy. Sad if someone gets hurt? Yes. Sad because a thief stole a weapon from me? Only that I wouldn't get my weapon back. Otherwise, all blame is on the thief.
If a theif stole your family's neighbors gun while he was at the store and killed your family while robbing them, you wouldn't be upset the neighbor didn't have his gun locked in a safe?

I find that hard to believe. Very hard.

I also find it hard to believe that you would not feel remorse if you had done the same.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:47 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
If a theif stole your family's neighbors gun while he was at the store and killed your family while robbing them, you wouldn't be upset the neighbor didn't have his gun locked in a safe?

I find that hard to believe. Very hard.

I also find it hard to believe that you would not feel remorse if you had done the same.
Who knows what emotions would flow during a family tragedy. But, my inclination is that when the dust settled, I would not blame my neighbor for the acts of a scumbag thief.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:01 PM   #49
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I would like to know what was used at Sandy Hook . . .seems it would be easy to quickly put out a report with facts but we are still all wondering.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:21 PM   #50
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I would like to know what was used at Sandy Hook . . .seems it would be easy to quickly put out a report with facts but we are still all wondering.
This^. I would also like to know how the shooter got the weapons. were they locked away properly? did he know the combo for the safe, if his mom even had one?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:50 PM   #51
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Keep up the good work whiterhino.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:51 PM   #52
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I would like to know what was used at Sandy Hook . . .seems it would be easy to quickly put out a report with facts but we are still all wondering.
I think the coroner said in his report it was an Ar.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:55 PM   #53
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I think the coroner said in his report it was an Ar.
How would the coroner know? There is no way to determine what gun was used just by simply looking at a body. I would even imagine without finding the bullet, it would be difficult to pinpoint what round did the damage.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:33 PM   #54
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How would the coroner know? There is no way to determine what gun was used just by simply looking at a body. I would even imagine without finding the bullet, it would be difficult to pinpoint what round did the damage.
If it was a 223 than it WAS an AR... And if it was 7.62 it WAS and Ak.. Anything to put fear in to the uninformed.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 07:34 PM   #55
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Who knows what emotions would flow during a family tragedy. But, my inclination is that when the dust settled, I would not blame my neighbor for the acts of a scumbag thief.
My point is you may not blame your neighbor for a scumbag theif, we don't differ there. But I'd find it hard to believe you wouldn't say, "damn if only he had locked his ammo, or locked his gun, or had a trigger lock on his guns since he wasn't home"

"If only that psycho kid didn't have access to HIS MOTHER'S guns at Sandy Hook"

If penalties for her guns being accessed by her psycho son were stricter, maybe she would have done a better job of keeping them from him, or, mabye she didn't think her son was a psycho and was never worried.

Either way we'll never know.

I do not agree with taking 2nd amendment rights away.
I do not agree with blaming the gun.
I agree with blaming the nut behind the trigger.

But in one regard, I do think that if gun owners were held more accountable when their firearms were stolen people would do more things to prevent their guns from falling into the wrong hands and it would to at least some degree prevent a few statistics each year and would work more favorably for gun owners.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 07:58 PM   #56
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and would work more favorably for gun owners.
Which ones? The ones that get their guns stolen and get in trouble for it? Sounds way too easy to start a finger pointing contest that ends up in a good guy looking like an asshole for breaking some stupid law. Also, availability and usefulness will require you to sacrifice security. I would love having no doors or windows on my house but it would be a bitch to get in and out of.

BTW, what constitutes secure? A $1200 safe, bolted to the floor and walls and only i know the combo? So now every gun owner needs an extra $1200 bucks to buy a $100 rifle. Face it, crazy people do crazy shit. I commend your thoughts on how to "lighten the blow", but it's pebbles compared what whackos are capable of.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 07:58 PM   #57
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Does this means it's written in stone?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bost...nd-of-january/
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:06 PM   #58
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Does this means it's written in stone?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/bost...nd-of-january/
“Menino and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg co-chair the 500-mayor-strong Mayors Against Illegal Guns and have called for national gun reform in the wake of last month’s Sandy Hook school killings,” the Herald report adds.

Oh the irony, oh the irony.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:20 PM   #59
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Which ones? The ones that get their guns stolen and get in trouble for it? Sounds way too easy to start a finger pointing contest that ends up in a good guy looking like an asshole for breaking some stupid law. Also, availability and usefulness will require you to sacrifice security. I would love having no doors or windows on my house but it would be a bitch to get in and out of.

BTW, what constitutes secure? A $1200 safe, bolted to the floor and walls and only i know the combo? So now every gun owner needs an extra $1200 bucks to buy a $100 rifle. Face it, crazy people do crazy shit. I commend your thoughts on how to "lighten the blow", but it's pebbles compared what whackos are capable of.
I do not know the answer to that.
This is entirely way too true, way too often.

I'd rather give a little, than give a ton. I think it's going to take something of the sort, or they'll just ban certain types of guns and we all know that doesn't make a difference as any gun can kill.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:43 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
If a theif stole your family's neighbors gun while he was at the store and killed your family while robbing them, you wouldn't be upset the neighbor didn't have his gun locked in a safe?

I find that hard to believe. Very hard.

I also find it hard to believe that you would not feel remorse if you had done the same.
Take emotion out of the whole argument and place the ultimate responsibility on the person doing the crimes and there you have it. If you don't look at the situation thay way, essentially you are kicking the can down the road and not holding the criminal fully responsible for their actions. They made a choicd to steal and a choice to shoot someone. Why is it the gun owners fault that he was robbed? There are limitations to how far one can go to secure their belongings. The onus is on the criminal. We only lock our doors to keep the honest people out.
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