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Old December 17th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #1
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Default Snyder veto sought on gun zone changes

I can't believe that someone can still have their head so far up their butt after what happened on Friday.

“Our position is that we don’t want more guns in proximity to students due to the risk of accidents,” Wotruba said.
“Not withstanding last week, schools are safe places. In Michigan, 1.6 million students come to school and go home, safely, each day.”
- Don Wotruba of the Michigan Association of School Boards

http://bridgemi.com/2012/12/snyder-v...-zone-changes/
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Old December 17th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #2
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You're surprised?
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Old December 17th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #3
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Write Snyder a letter, include this:

Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun.
• He killed 168 innocent people.
• 19 of them were children under the age of 6
• over 680 others injured
• you can still buy fertilizer
• you can still buy racing fuel
• you can still rent box trucks...

Murderers will still murder with, or without guns.



or just "share" the facebook meme picture floating around. . .
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #4
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someone posted this on FB and i noticed the article was written in 2008. i kinda wonder if they passed that and how it is working for them. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html
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Old December 18th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #5
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Stupid.

How many accidental shootings happen from a CCW holder? Very few I'd guess.
How many kids would have died in that school Friday if someone in the front office had a gun? Probably none.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #6
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Maybe it's because I actually worked with teachers professionally, but I completely understand this.

To make a bit of an argument against it, although I'm not really against it, In most schools parents aren't there all day long. The only people there are the teachers, aids, administrators, and support staff. Two out of the four of those categories are with the children all day long.

To arm a teacher, IMO, is counter productive to thier ability to teach. Instead of worrying if Jimmy in the back row is getting how to add, they have to think about, and be aware, of security for thier class. Not only that, but what would happen if they had to draw thier gun and shoot someone.

The second Category is the aid. They are still just as invested in the teaching process as the kids. In special needs classes, even more so. Not only that, but both teachers and Aids are restricted to one classroom. They probably have the littlest amount of ability to protect the whole school. I also think giving them a gun would open the kids up to more danger if they failed in subduing the intruder.

The Third is the Administrators. Most of which stay in the office a good part of the day. In the schools I worked with the only way in/out of the school was the door closest to the office. Administrators don't have the same hands on responsibilities as the teachers and, for a lot of schools in MI, are in charge of keeping the building safe. These are the people that I think would make sense to carry.

Support staff would also be a good option. Custodians, grounds workers, ETC have a better chance, and ability, to protect the school while not putting students in danger.

Then we have to think of the kids. While we as adults may not be intimidated as much by a gun, elementary students can be. Not that they would be open carrying them, but what happens if Mrs Stevens accidentally didn't conceal her gun the whole way and her whole class sees it? That would completely take the focus of of those kids learning on onto either fear or 'coolness'.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter. Coming from someone who actually worked multiple school districts and transported kids and cargo to and from multiple different schools with in the district.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #7
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Lame
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Old December 18th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #8
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The GR superintendent said he would also press Snyder to veto the bill.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 03:17 PM   #9
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Just my thinking here, But what if there was a trained Marshal in each school with his own office / gun locker, that is there and interacts with kids to get somewhate of an idea of the mental stability of them and to watch the school like a hawk during hrs. "school cop per say"
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Old December 18th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Maybe it's because I actually worked with teachers professionally, but I completely understand this.

To make a bit of an argument against it, although I'm not really against it, In most schools parents aren't there all day long. The only people there are the teachers, aids, administrators, and support staff. Two out of the four of those categories are with the children all day long.

To arm a teacher, IMO, is counter productive to thier ability to teach. Instead of worrying if Jimmy in the back row is getting how to add, they have to think about, and be aware, of security for thier class. Not only that, but what would happen if they had to draw thier gun and shoot someone.

The second Category is the aid. They are still just as invested in the teaching process as the kids. In special needs classes, even more so. Not only that, but both teachers and Aids are restricted to one classroom. They probably have the littlest amount of ability to protect the whole school. I also think giving them a gun would open the kids up to more danger if they failed in subduing the intruder.

The Third is the Administrators. Most of which stay in the office a good part of the day. In the schools I worked with the only way in/out of the school was the door closest to the office. Administrators don't have the same hands on responsibilities as the teachers and, for a lot of schools in MI, are in charge of keeping the building safe. These are the people that I think would make sense to carry.

Support staff would also be a good option. Custodians, grounds workers, ETC have a better chance, and ability, to protect the school while not putting students in danger.

Then we have to think of the kids. While we as adults may not be intimidated as much by a gun, elementary students can be. Not that they would be open carrying them, but what happens if Mrs Stevens accidentally didn't conceal her gun the whole way and her whole class sees it? That would completely take the focus of of those kids learning on onto either fear or 'coolness'.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter. Coming from someone who actually worked multiple school districts and transported kids and cargo to and from multiple different schools with in the district.
Simple. The teacher can store a gun in a secure coded lock box. They don't have to be wearing it on their hip like John Wayne.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 03:58 PM   #11
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Damnit. He VETOED the bill. Back to the drawing board.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:01 PM   #12
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Simple. The teacher can store a gun in a secure coded lock box. They don't have to be wearing it on their hip like John Wayne.
What happens if Joe Shooter shows up at your door and you don't have time to get the gun out of the lock box? It's not a bad idea. However, Alot of teachers are very liberal in thinking. I don't think many of them would want a gun anyways, or choose to carry. I don't see the point of just a few teachers having guns. Then it would it be up to those carrying to secure more then just their classroom. That could possibly leave their own classroom wide open.

I think restricting entrances in/out in every school would help, if it's not a policy in the school already. Then have someone at that entrance, a security officer, a principal, even an office assistant with the ability to carry. Schools, in MI at least, are required to have an airlock type entrance (I think for fire code). Lock the inner door and only allow access to those you want. If you someone is sketchy, notify the gun carrying staff member.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #13
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Simple. The teacher can store a gun in a secure coded lock box. They don't have to be wearing it on their hip like John Wayne.
How many teachers would you feel comfortable having this around.
What's the possibility of a student some how getting in this gun safe (if lets say, it wasn't locked properly, or the student grabbed the keys out of the teachers purse, or??)

nope, I'm not if favor of it.

I would be more in favor of someone in law enforcement being there, but where would the money come from. There's already problems having enough money for enough cops on the street, add one to every school and I'll bet the number of cops for any given city just double or tripled for the day shift.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #14
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What happens if Joe Shooter shows up at your door and you don't have time to get the gun out of the lock box? It's not a bad idea. However, Alot of teachers are very liberal in thinking. I don't think many of them would want a gun anyways, or choose to carry. I don't see the point of just a few teachers having guns. Then it would it be up to those carrying to secure more then just their classroom. That could possibly leave their own classroom wide open.

I think restricting entrances in/out in every school would help, if it's not a policy in the school already. Then have someone at that entrance, a security officer, a principal, even an office assistant with the ability to carry. Schools, in MI at least, are required to have an airlock type entrance (I think for fire code). Lock the inner door and only allow access to those you want. If you someone is sketchy, notify the gun carrying staff member.
wasn't the school hit on friday locked, reports were he shoot the glass and went right in. To add a person adds cost, see my above post about that, not that I'm against it...
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #15
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wasn't the school hit on friday locked, reports were he shoot the glass and went right in. To add a person adds cost, see my above post about that, not that I'm against it...
I agree. There is no money to add an extra person. As far as I remember the school was locked down but, as with some of the schools I went into on a daily basis, the #1 or office door was probably unlocked. I'm pretty sure I heard that the principals office tried to make an announcement just before the shooting started. Trying to warn teachers.

I'm pretty sure most schools have to have automatic closing doors for fire code. Why not incorporate a button in the office to automatically shut the doors when the school is in danger? The doors could only be opened from the inside, so a teacher could let a student in from the hall way in. I'm also pretty sure those doors have to be fire rated for a couple hours which may give that extra protection to give the police time to respond.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #16
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How many teachers would you feel comfortable having this around.
What's the possibility of a student some how getting in this gun safe (if lets say, it wasn't locked properly, or the student grabbed the keys out of the teachers purse, or??)

nope, I'm not if favor of it.

I would be more in favor of someone in law enforcement being there, but where would the money come from. There's already problems having enough money for enough cops on the street, add one to every school and I'll bet the number of cops for any given city just double or tripled for the day shift.
You can what if these thing till steveo's whore g/f comes home, but at the end of the day, the answer is still the same. If the gun owner is resposible, it can't happen. Trained, proficient and smart, it makes it very, very hard to get control of a gun from somebody who's that.

Having a cop on site is worthless. I the school I grew up in, had over 2,000 kids. Our school was fucking huge. The closest cop is not going to be worth a damn if their down the hall and a round the corner when you have a gunman at the door. Your trigger finger will always be faster than the cop's legs can carry them.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #17
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You can what if these thing till steveo's whore g/f comes home, but at the end of the day, the answer is still the same. If the gun owner is resposible, it can't happen. Trained, proficient and smart, it makes it very, very hard to get control of a gun from somebody who's that.

Having a cop on site is worthless. I the school I grew up in, had over 2,000 kids. Our school was fucking huge. The closest cop is not going to be worth a damn if their down the hall and a round the corner when you have a gunman at the door. Your trigger finger will always be faster than the cop's legs can carry them.
You're under the assumption that if this would have passed Every teacher would have been armed. I don't think many would agree with carrying, especially elementary teachers. The limited amount of teachers carrying wouldn't be much different then the police officer on the other side of the school.

In the case of the CT incident, it was 9:30 when it all went down. Unless they start school an hour and half after then we do in Michigan, the benefit of armed parents would have done diddly squat. And If I were going to attack a school, I'd choose the time that I was least likely to meat opposition.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #18
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What happens if Joe Shooter shows up at your door and you don't have time to get the gun out of the lock box? It's not a bad idea. However, Alot of teachers are very liberal in thinking. I don't think many of them would want a gun anyways, or choose to carry. I don't see the point of just a few teachers having guns. Then it would it be up to those carrying to secure more then just their classroom. That could possibly leave their own classroom wide open.

I think restricting entrances in/out in every school would help, if it's not a policy in the school already. Then have someone at that entrance, a security officer, a principal, even an office assistant with the ability to carry. Schools, in MI at least, are required to have an airlock type entrance (I think for fire code). Lock the inner door and only allow access to those you want. If you someone is sketchy, notify the gun carrying staff member.


Locking the doors would be a firecode violation I believe
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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #19
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Yup, when I went to high school all the doors were locked during the day, we had a officer working I the school who had his own office and was armed, he was super out of shape and probably couldn't stop shit from happening, there's not much you can do really besides Turning schools into a prison. I went to walled lake central btw.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #20
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Locking the doors would be a firecode violation I believe
No, at my high schools all doors where locked from the out side but unlocked from the inside....
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