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Old December 18th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #61
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First, I'm all for citizens carrying concealed weapons and all for owning as many guns you want. I'm also against out right banning of any weapons.

Please explain why its so important to NOT restrict semi-auto / auto rifles. Or whats wrong with limiting the number of bullets in a magazine? Is this a precedence issue?

I see no reason why there shouldn't be a shit ton of paperwork and background and medical reviews before someone can have a permit to purchase/own an automatic weapon. Nothing saying anyone can't own one, just implementing policy that may prevent a rifle designed to kill quickly in a war from being held by the wrong people.

Is the right to feel the thrill of pulling a trigger and having 30 rounds pour out the only reason to object to a restriction?

On the handgun side of it, I've asked a few people I know who own handguns and it sounds stupid easy to buy one. Also the permit to carry concealed, I've listened to conversations etc... this also sounds ridiculously easy to obtain. Why is anyone against increased checks on someones background/state of mind/health/living situation?

Playing devils advocate here, so why is this so bad to increase the number of loops someone has to jump through?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by lgottler View Post
First, I'm all for citizens carrying concealed weapons and all for owning as many guns you want. I'm also against out right banning of any weapons.

Please explain why its so important to NOT restrict semi-auto / auto rifles. Or whats wrong with limiting the number of bullets in a magazine? Is this a precedence issue?

1. Semi-automatic weapons are extremely common, from hunting rifles to handguns, etc. They have been around for over 100 years.

2. Show me how restricting them would prevent any types of the crimes that have occurred from happening.

3. What's the difference of shooting 100 rounds from 5 20 round magazines or 10 10 round magazines? Absolutely none. These laws have absolutely ZERO affect on the crimes they try to stop.

4. Shall not infringed....ring a bell?

5. This is how it starts. Limiting certain aspects of firearms, then more, and more and more and more until we can't own any.



I see no reason why there shouldn't be a shit ton of paperwork and background and medical reviews before someone can have a permit to purchase/own an automatic weapon. Nothing saying anyone can't own one, just implementing policy that may prevent a rifle designed to kill quickly in a war from being held by the wrong people.

This is already in place. You can't just go simply buy a fully automatic weapon. That is, unless you go on the black market. There is a lot of paperwork and money involved. The guns used at Newtown were not fully automatic. Why anyone (including the media) starts talking about automatic weapons is beyond me.

Is the right to feel the thrill of pulling a trigger and having 30 rounds pour out the only reason to object to a restriction?

Yes.

On the handgun side of it, I've asked a few people I know who own handguns and it sounds stupid easy to buy one. Also the permit to carry concealed, I've listened to conversations etc... this also sounds ridiculously easy to obtain. Why is anyone against increased checks on someones background/state of mind/health/living situation?

For fukc 's sake man do some research. If you do not have a CPL, you have to go to your local police department during their hours of business and obtain a purchase permit. You usually take a basic safety test there. They also check your record. You then go buy the gun, where another national background check system is performed. Then you have to return the permit to the police department.

For a CPL holder, you have to take an 8 hour class and it must have range time. NRA certifications usually require an individual to put 30 rounds into an 8 x 11 inch square target at 12 feet. You then fill out all of the paperwork at your police department, and get fingerprinted. They then submit the paper work and charge you $105. Now starts all of the background checks. Local PD, county sheriff, state police, and FBI. I'm almost certain medical background checks are done as well. If all that passes, you can get your CPL after waiting several weeks. If you live in Macomb County, you have to appear before a gun board to answer some questions, and then you can get it if they don't find a reason you wouldn't be elligible.

There is no way to tell if someone is mentally deranged and has plans to kill. Absolutely none. No laws on the face of this planet can change that. Did anyone know what McVeigh was going to do when he purchased fuel, fertilizer and a rental cube truck?


Playing devils advocate here, so why is this so bad to increase the number of loops someone has to jump through?

Because those hellbent on doing harm will completely bypass the system entirely.
How misinformed you are....
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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #63
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McVeigh claimed to be a racer and that's how he walked into a track and purchased 55gallons of Nitro methane.
Not sure why I took the time to post this since it's kinda irreverent.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:47 PM   #64
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laws will not keep criminals from committing crimes. how else should it be explained?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #65
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McVeigh claimed to be a racer and that's how he walked into a track and purchased 55gallons of Nitro methane.
Not sure why I took the time to post this since it's kinda irreverent.


Irrelevant yes, but your self deprecating comment made me laugh.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
3. What's the difference of shooting 100 rounds from 5 20 round magazines or 10 10 round magazines? Absolutely none. These laws have absolutely ZERO affect on the crimes they try to stop.
Reload time? If somebody had to reload after 10 shots, instead of after 20, wouldn't that give someone time to try and stop them?

You asked...
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:25 PM   #67
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Best explanation.

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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:27 PM   #68
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I havent seen this covered yet, forgive me if I missed it, but does any body know when is the earliest a ban could be pushed through? I understand our ruling class is on vacation now so that may add some delay. Do we have weeks, months before a decision is made on this?
Bump for my question.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #69
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Bump for my question.
If Obama wanted, he could make it an executive order... So Tomorrow.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:40 PM   #70
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When evaluating any restrictions on Second Amendment Rights, apply the same restriction/limitation to another Right.

"You have freedom of speech -only as long as you don't use over 10 words" or "women can vote, but only on issues that existed before 1780"...
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #71
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How misinformed you are....
I suppose this is a problem I have with this topic, its either ban completely or do nothing. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground. I'd like to see solutions offered from both sides to meet in the middle.

Possible suggestions:
What about locking gun cases? Trigger locks? Coded safeties? What and how are the guns stored when you are not home or the guns are not on you? I had to tell my boss that having his loaded handgun laying next to the office laser printer made me nervous. How do you enforce or promote this?

When someone refers to "automatic" and "semiautomatic", I consider it nearly the same thing. As fast as you can pull the trigger vs. holding the trigger. Very little difference in my mind.

As far as obtaining a handgun, I know a few people that make me nervous owning a handgun (mental issues, carelessness, etc...)
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #72
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If Obama wanted, he could make it an executive order... So Tomorrow.
Should have prefaced with a "besides executive order" when I asked my question. We know this guy has no problem with executive orders.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by lgottler View Post
I suppose this is a problem I have with this topic, its either ban completely or do nothing. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground. I'd like to see solutions offered from both sides to meet in the middle.

Possible suggestions:
What about locking gun cases? Trigger locks? Coded safeties? What and how are the guns stored when you are not home or the guns are not on you? I had to tell my boss that having his loaded handgun laying next to the office laser printer made me nervous. How do you enforce or promote this?

All new pistols and rifles sold are required to leave the store with a trigger lock, free of charge.

Why does a loaded handgun laying next to a printer make you nervous? Do pencils laying around also make you nervous? You know, somebody could grab that pencil, write something and make a spelling mistake...




When someone refers to "automatic" and "semiautomatic", I consider it nearly the same thing. As fast as you can pull the trigger vs. holding the trigger. Very little difference in my mind.

Really? Wow...that blows my mind.

As far as obtaining a handgun, I know a few people that make me nervous owning a handgun (mental issues, carelessness, etc...)


I know a few people who make me nervous having the right to vote. I also know a few people who make me nervous driving a car. A lot of people make me nervous having the ability to procreate, but that doesn't mean that somebody else has the right to take those choices away from them.

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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:18 PM   #74
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When someone refers to "automatic" and "semiautomatic", I consider it nearly the same thing. As fast as you can pull the trigger vs. holding the trigger. Very little difference in my mind.
You've obviously have never fired a gun before or you're a complete badass.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #75
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You've obviously have never fired a gun before or you're a complete badass.
I'm a complete badass! :cool:
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by lgottler View Post
First, I'm all for citizens carrying concealed weapons and all for owning as many guns you want. I'm also against out right banning of any weapons.

Please explain why its so important to NOT restrict semi-auto / auto rifles. Or whats wrong with limiting the number of bullets in a magazine? Is this a precedence issue?

I see no reason why there shouldn't be a shit ton of paperwork and background and medical reviews before someone can have a permit to purchase/own an automatic weapon. Nothing saying anyone can't own one, just implementing policy that may prevent a rifle designed to kill quickly in a war from being held by the wrong people.

Is the right to feel the thrill of pulling a trigger and having 30 rounds pour out the only reason to object to a restriction?

On the handgun side of it, I've asked a few people I know who own handguns and it sounds stupid easy to buy one. Also the permit to carry concealed, I've listened to conversations etc... this also sounds ridiculously easy to obtain. Why is anyone against increased checks on someones background/state of mind/health/living situation?

Playing devils advocate here, so why is this so bad to increase the number of loops someone has to jump through?
You can have all the paperwork you want. The guns used last week were stolen from his mother.. No paperwork will stop a thieve. Nor will a trigger lock or really a safe for that matter.. If I can get your safe to my house, I can get it open..
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #77
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McVeigh claimed to be a racer and that's how he walked into a track and purchased 55gallons of Nitro methane.
Not sure why I took the time to post this since it's kinda irreverent.
not sure why you did either? was he planning on driving rc cars?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #78
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lol nice response
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:27 PM   #79
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You can have all the paperwork you want. The guns used last week were stolen from his mother.. No paperwork will stop a thieve. Nor will a trigger lock or really a safe for that matter.. If I can get your safe to my house, I can get it open..
I agree that paperwork would matter in this particular case but I'm sure even preventing one such incident would make it worth it. It's really a case of how you store your guns when you don't have them on you here. I grew up with my dads gun in a zippered case with shells in the case on the floor next to his bed. When I was little I remember unzipping it and looking at it, but thankfully he taught me enough to never touch it.

If the mother wasn't dead too I'd say she was responsible for a part of the tragedy. Toughen up laws regarding ownership of a gun used for a crime? Get people more responsible for the safe and secure storage of unused guns?

But back to the thread topic, banning isn't the answer but what other action can be suggested? Something is going to happen...
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #80
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not sure why you did either? was he planning on driving rc cars?
Nope, motorcycle Not the cut down rc stuff.

Last edited by Shotgun; December 18th, 2012 at 10:41 PM.
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