MI right-to-work vote - Page 7 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #121
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,866
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefwoohaw View Post
Then I guess they should make themselves marketable if $8 is the going rate for an uneducated worker.
I was looking into emt school a few months back. But the pay is only $10-12 an hour. How the hell do they expect people to go to school to make that type of cash? When they can flip burgers and make $8. So to get a job working the line at the big three and start off at $15 is damn good with the potential of topping out at $25.
cj65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:54 PM   #122
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
True and this won't be good for anyone that Works for a living.
So workers who voted out a union and then had one forced upon them due to a technicality should move out of the state?

Also, because I busted my ass to get two degrees which make me highly employable, and I am able to negotiate my own wages, I don't work for a living?

Oh what you meant to say is "This won't be good for those who make more than their skills are worth"

Last edited by jeepinRRT; December 9th, 2012 at 03:32 PM.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #123
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
I was looking into emt school a few months back. But the pay is only $10-12 an hour. How the hell do they expect people to go to school to make that type of cash? When they can flip burgers and make $8. So to get a job working the line at the big three and start off at $15 is damn good with the potential of topping out at $25.
EMT is not "school" per se. Its a certificate program in most cases and not even an associates degree.

Quite simply the EMT wage is so low because of the limited investment required, and the number of people who can do the job. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but its true.

I am in no way saying there is anything against being an EMT. I have worked with several great ones, but that is why the EMT does not make as much as a nurse who does exponentially more and has spent exponentially more getting trained.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #124
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

I've never been part of a union and every time I've dealt with unions it have been a bad experience.

But even if I was part of a union I think I'd still support "right to work". I see RTW as a way for the union members to hold the union management accountable. Most union contracts I've read seem to be more focused on increasing union membership and not actually improving anything for the current workers. The low pay for starting workers? Unions agree to it so that companies can hire more and collect more dues. Smaller class sizes in schools? Great idea, but the unions are fighting for it because it means more teachers and thus more dues paid.

I see "right to work" as taking some of the power away from the union bosses and giving it back to the workers themselves.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #125
jimhri
Senior Member
 
jimhri's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-17-07
Location: north of a bankrupt city
Posts: 3,302
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

i worked with a lot of union representatives. most were nice guys and like so many of us, they are the silent majority and let the loud mouths get all the newsprint and poor-me camera time.

i present an opinion after seeing those stories about activists making a racket in the state capitals of WI and MI :

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE LOUD DOESN'T MEAN YOUR RIGHT!
jimhri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #126
upchuck
Senior Member
 
upchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-16-07
Location: grand rapids, Michigan
Posts: 1,100
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Let's all help the race to the bottom muttonheads, your kids will willingly work for less
upchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #127
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,832
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Or continue to bleed businesses dry and have nothing?
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #128
liv2mx
i like jungle gym's.
 
liv2mx's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-10-05
Location: silver lake and up in the air building america
Posts: 11,215
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Default

im a local 25 iron worker..i dont know whats going to happen.our union guys have been blowing my phone up though.
liv2mx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #129
dreezy
whadayatalkinabout
 
dreezy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-28-08
Location: Holland Mi
Posts: 10,058
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to dreezy Send a message via MSN to dreezy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2mx View Post
im a local 25 iron worker.
It all makes sense now.
__________________
"you think you're precious, I think you're shit."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Ryan, if I wanted any shit from you, I'd go looking for Leah's strap-on.
dreezy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 09:36 PM   #130
SS
Blinded By The Light
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Mogadishu, Somalia
Posts: 11,937
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by upchuck View Post
Let's all help the race to the bottom muttonheads, your kids will willingly work for less
Why? Nothing in this legislation does anything to limit the power of the union other than give people the choice to be in it. If they lose a ton of members it's because the union did a piss poor job representing them.

NOTHING IN THIS LEGISLATION DOES ANYTHING TO BRING DOWN WAGES, CUT BENEFITS OR DESTROY UNIONS. IT'S ONLY GIVING EVERYONE THE CHOICE TO JOIN OR NOT TO JOIN A UNION. STOP SAYING IT'S THE END OF GOOD WAGES.
__________________
-Jeremy

Watch yourself. I'll light you up.
SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 10:14 PM   #131
DuffMan
Your Message Here
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: The Ile of Grosse
Posts: 5,837
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Why? Nothing in this legislation does anything to limit the power of the union other than give people the choice to be in it. If they lose a ton of members it's because the union did a piss poor job representing them.

NOTHING IN THIS LEGISLATION DOES ANYTHING TO BRING DOWN WAGES, CUT BENEFITS OR DESTROY UNIONS. IT'S ONLY GIVING EVERYONE THE CHOICE TO JOIN OR NOT TO JOIN A UNION. STOP SAYING IT'S THE END OF GOOD WAGES.
X2

Union agreements, membership, and contracts remain untouched. Stop blindly accepting the union CEO and PR firm BS.

Unions are against it because it makes them accountable to their memberships -i.e. crappy unions lose members and dues. Union CEOs are accustomed to multi-million $ salaries, private jets, and plenty of member's money to throw at politicians. RTW laws make them work harder for their memberships.
__________________
This is the Pub. Leave common sense at the door.
DuffMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #132
04PSD
aka Langford
 
04PSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-02-07
Location: La Salle, MI
Posts: 1,279
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
X2

Union agreements, membership, and contracts remain untouched. Stop blindly accepting the union CEO and PR firm BS.

Unions are against it because it makes them accountable to their memberships -i.e. crappy unions lose members and dues. Union CEOs are accustomed to multi-million $ salaries, private jets, and plenty of member's money to throw at politicians. RTW laws make them work harder for their memberships.
I doubt there are many Union Presidents making multi-million dollar salaries, maybe a few of the professional sports unions, but that's not the typical salary or union...the represented workers make on average MUCH more in those situations.
04PSD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #133
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,354
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04PSD View Post
I doubt there are many Union Presidents making multi-million dollar salaries, maybe a few of the professional sports unions, but that's not the typical salary or union...the represented workers make on average MUCH more in those situations.
What's your point? Unless somebody can show me specifically where in this bill the Union is eliminated, or collective bargaining is compromised, then STFU! All that this bill does is give employees the CHOICE to be a union member.
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 10:41 PM   #134
04PSD
aka Langford
 
04PSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-02-07
Location: La Salle, MI
Posts: 1,279
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
What's your point? Unless somebody can show me specifically where in this bill the Union is eliminated, or collective bargaining is compromised, then STFU! All that this bill does is give employees the CHOICE to be a union member.
My point was, people always like to blame these "evil Union CEO's" for everything. "Million dollar salaries, private jets, etc". Not realistic, or at least not the norm.


Yes, this bill gives employees the choice. But it also provides those employees with all of the benefits of being in a union, without having to pay to be part of it, thus weakening the union. The Union will have to spend funds to represent somebody who doesn't provide any type of financial support for them. Besides hurting the union financially, this creates issues between workers....if employees don't stand together in a union, they have no power. When it comes time for negotiation, a half assed group of represented and free riders will get walked all over by a company.
04PSD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #135
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,504
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

The Unions say they are blocking Telegraph in the morning wtf...
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 05:38 AM   #136
feva4u
LCG
 
feva4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-01-07
Location: Petoskey, MI
Posts: 10,377
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04PSD View Post
My point was, people always like to blame these "evil Union CEO's" for everything. "Million dollar salaries, private jets, etc". Not realistic, or at least not the norm.


Yes, this bill gives employees the choice. But it also provides those employees with all of the benefits of being in a union, without having to pay to be part of it, thus weakening the union. The Union will have to spend funds to represent somebody who doesn't provide any type of financial support for them. Besides hurting the union financially, this creates issues between workers....if employees don't stand together in a union, they have no power. When it comes time for negotiation, a half assed group of represented and free riders will get walked all over by a company.
Lol @ sheeple.
__________________
My Jeep
feva4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 06:08 AM   #137
BadDawg
Member
 
BadDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-24-09
Location: Lawton/MI
Posts: 75
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The Center for Public Integrity found compensation for leaders of the 10 largest unions ranged from $173,000 at the United Auto Workers to $618,000 at the Laborers' International Union of North America, and almost $480,000 for the president of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees. According to Obama's definition mosr of these union leaders are indeed Millionairs and Billionairs.

It's quite simple, if the Union Bosses can provide a "product" that people want, they will have membership, but the truth of the matter is the Union over reach has been apparent for many years and people are just sick and tired of it. Obama has been the greatest thing for anti-union sentiment for how he "bailed" out GM.
BadDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 07:10 AM   #138
kevinr839
Senior Member
 
kevinr839's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-19-06
Location: petersburg, MI
Posts: 840
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

If the anti union people on here took the UAW(put bolt into a hole every 20 seconds) out of their argument they would not have much more to argue about. Not every job requires a college degree to perform, there are many jobs that require certain skills or where people are in dangerous situations where they should be compensated fairly. Unions still do some good in the work place for saftey and equality. I have seen it protect a skilled emloyee that works hard but is not liked by a single manager for personal reasons that keeps trying to punish the employee unfairly. I have also seen it step in at a jobsite where management was trying to rush something along and was causing an unsafe situation for the employees doing the job. I unfortunatly have seen the other side (uaw factory) where useless employees were protected. There is a balance somewhere that needs to be found.
kevinr839 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 07:26 AM   #139
homerdogeo8
booger eatin' moron
 
homerdogeo8's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-06-08
Location: St Johns
Posts: 2,329
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Well the unions must be good for something:

UAW gets drunk, stoned Chrysler employees their jobs back

http://www.caintv.com/uaw-gets-drunk-stoned-chrysler
homerdogeo8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2012, 07:44 AM   #140
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,486
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinr839 View Post
If the anti union people on here took the UAW(put bolt into a hole every 20 seconds) out of their argument they would not have much more to argue about. Not every job requires a college degree to perform, there are many jobs that require certain skills or where people are in dangerous situations where they should be compensated fairly. Unions still do some good in the work place for saftey and equality. I have seen it protect a skilled emloyee that works hard but is not liked by a single manager for personal reasons that keeps trying to punish the employee unfairly. I have also seen it step in at a jobsite where management was trying to rush something along and was causing an unsafe situation for the employees doing the job. I unfortunatly have seen the other side (uaw factory) where useless employees were protected. There is a balance somewhere that needs to be found.
Perhaps that balance can be found by allowing the workers a choice of whether to join or not.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.36856 seconds with 81 queries