MI right-to-work vote - Page 6 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #101
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,934
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Again if any of you think RTW is a good thing please feel free to move to any RTW state you like.
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #102
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,515
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Again if any of you think RTW is a good thing please feel free to move to any RTW state you like.
Right Las Vegas has alot of Jobs and the rest of their State
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #103
DuffMan
Your Message Here
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: The Ile of Grosse
Posts: 5,845
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Again if any of you think RTW is a good thing please feel free to move to any RTW state you like.
It's looking like I can just sit still...
__________________
This is the Pub. Leave common sense at the door.
DuffMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #104
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,934
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
It's looking like I can just sit still...
True and this won't be good for anyone that Works for a living.
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #105
camccardell
tiger blood
 
camccardell's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-14-08
Location: Homer MI
Posts: 1,361
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

wish he would have rushed through a welfare reform instead. I think we can all agree on that one!
camccardell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #106
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,934
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Time to impeach Snyder
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #107
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,515
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Time to impeach Snyder
it will never happen
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #108
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,455
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Again if any of you think RTW is a good thing please feel free to move to any RTW state you like.
Sorry, I feel the business owns the jobs, not the Unions. I'm staying.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #109
Ebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: MI
Posts: 3,396
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
As I said earlier I make over 150k doing my job. There are other companies in this state where most of the guys make 60k or less. Which is a good wage still. But in Flordia for my company only make 35k a year. Which is not right. There is no way in hell I would do my job for 35k a year.

As I said earlier...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebs View Post
It's not my place to say if someone is overpaid or not. However, wages are subject to supply and demand just like anything else. The basic model would suggest, if the supply of available workers exceeds the current demand for labor, a decrease in wages is needed.

I wonder how many applicants there are when one of your $150k/year driving positions opens up. I bet it's a lot. I bet they'd still get a good amount if they lowered the wage to that $60K. If you owned the business, what wage would you offer that would still draw enough qualified people to fill the needed positions? What is that equilibrium point, the point where you can reduce expenses (wages) and still find good, loyal, qualified workers?

Or maybe your business is booming, and expanding so fast that you can't fill all the open positions and you need to increase wages from that $60k to $150k just to get enough qualified people to care enough to send in a resume.

This is how the free market operates, and where unions try to fight and drag their feet. And it's also why having a healthy economy and creating jobs is such a big issue. If there where, say, 2 jobs available for every 1 person it would be a great problem to have, employers would be competing with each other for workers, not the other way around, like we have now.

Last edited by Ebs; December 8th, 2012 at 10:56 PM.
Ebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 11:26 PM   #110
amc78cj7
Senior Member
 
amc78cj7's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,354
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
That the wages of the working man will be lowered. Damn near everyone on this board will be affected.
So let's say I work for Ford on the line. Ford has operations in many of our fine states. Some are right to work and others are not. Do you believe that Ford would now pay me less because I am in a RTW state? Do you feel the UAW is just going to vanish because Michigan becomes a RTW state? Are Ford workers making less in Indiana than in Michigan?
__________________
I'm not quoting idiots who promote unsafe recovery strap techniques anymore. :miff:
amc78cj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #111
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,515
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Obama has the best plan " No one has the right to Work you didn't build that! "
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #112
Tie Dyed
O.G.
 
Tie Dyed's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 4,200
iTrader: (28)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Tie Dyed
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Snyder made it clear that he wasn't going to bring RTW up, as long as King (UAW CEO) didn't pursue Prop 2. King (and others) called his bluff, and Snyder is simply responding as promised. When the union CEOs decided to play politics, they set events into motion.

What about over a year ago, before anything was ever said about Prop 2?


How about if you're a teacher? If you think objectively about it, the closed shop concept is pretty screwed up. "Congratulations on the new job, now to keep that job you have to join a club and pay them an initiation fee as well as a part of your wages monthly".

Charter schools, private schools.


Based on the results from Prop 2, the electorate has spoke pretty clearly. The 82% of MI's workforce that are not union members are tired of the unions repelling jobs from MI.
Because all of the propositions failed, I believe that it was more of a "we don't want to screw with the state constitution then the people speaking about how they feel about RTW.

And as for "brotherhood", take a look at the kinds of wages and benefits current UAW members voted to give new members. Not a lot of "solidarity" there - more like "don't touch my pay/benefits, but go ahead and stick to the new guys".

As I've said before, unions who's members believe they're doing a good job should be unaffected. Skilled trades will be unaffected, as they are in the current RTW states - they provide something to both their members (training and certification) and employers (qualified craftspeople).I hope so.

I think we are going to see it in a vote before the people.
__________________
2000 XJ with a 3 inch body lift
Tie Dyed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 10:01 AM   #113
SS
Doing stuff...and things.
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: 48309
Posts: 12,141
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Default

So since the big point of this legislation keeps getting ignored over and over again for propaganda can one of the pro-union guys actually answer it?

All this says is that workers DO NOT HAVE to join the union. It doesn't limit the unions power. It doesn't work to destroy the union. It doesn't do anything but give the workers (YOU!) a choice in whether or not you want to join the union.

How is more freedom in the workplace a bad thing? If a ton of people leave the union you're in it is only because they feel the union isn't doing a good job representing them and their money is better spent elsewhere. It has nothing to do with the government breaking up that union. No one is saying you can't be in a union or that the unions must disband.
__________________
-Jer

SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #114
orangejeeper
Member
 
orangejeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-01-08
Location: Jackson Mich.
Posts: 49
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

If you like RTW or not, EVERYONE should be pissed the way this was rushed through. They should work this fast on the budget !
orangejeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #115
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,579
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangejeeper View Post
If you like RTW or not, EVERYONE should be pissed the way this was rushed through. They should work this fast on the budget !
I'm not pissed with the way this was rushed through. I'm pissed that they don't work this fast on other things.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #116
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
True and this won't be good for anyone that Works for a living.
It'll be good for all those looking for a job that will actually land one by all the new industry that will move in because they won't have to pay $30/hour for a HS educated worker to put nut A on bolt B with a wrench already set to exact torque.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:07 PM   #117
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,934
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefwoohaw View Post
It'll be good for all those looking for a job that will actually land one by all the new industry that will move in because they won't have to pay $30/hour for a HS educated worker to put nut A on bolt B with a wrench already set to exact torque.
Sure now they will be paid $8 dollars an hour. So we now have a weaker economy. Sure people are working but not making any cash to speak of. Could you support your family on these wage? I couldn't and there is just two of us and a baby on the way. So how will this be a Benifit?
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #118
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,930
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

One benefit would be that companies will be able to afford to stay in business and continue provide jobs instead of going out of business because they cannot afford the union demands. The government can only bail out the big three so many times before they just have to let nature take its course.
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #119
jimhri
Senior Member
 
jimhri's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-17-07
Location: it's Tuesday so it must be Belguim
Posts: 3,371
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

one minor note on the movement of the democrat party....

they used to say they represented and fought for the poor and under privilaged.
now they say they stand in favor of saving the middle class.

what the hell happened here. did all the poor and under privilaged get wealthier and privilaged while i was asleep? have not heard one reference to these groups since before obama's first campaign for president.

another 2 or 3 presidential campaigns and the dems'll say they are in favor of saving the upper class!!
jimhri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #120
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Sure now they will be paid $8 dollars an hour. So we now have a weaker economy. Sure people are working but not making any cash to speak of. Could you support your family on these wage? I couldn't and there is just two of us and a baby on the way. So how will this be a Benifit?
Then I guess they should make themselves marketable if $8 is the going rate for an uneducated worker.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.36155 seconds with 81 queries