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Old December 7th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #41
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I at people that think because someone isn't in a union they are scab workers and are somehow inferior and/or did not receive the proper training. Master plumbers and electricians working at non union companies come to mind.
x2 Had this problem many times working for a non union company with other union companys on site. Whats stupid is union guys are normally asshats for no reason other than your non union. It should be up to the employee, and im glad this passed.

Im not saying all unions are all bad news, just alot more bad examples then good these days, just open your eyes.

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Old December 7th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #42
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Again, the key point is that unions will still be around - the only change is that workers will have a choice whether they want to belong or not.

Why is that so bad? How is giving workers a choice "anti-worker"?

If the unions are doing their jobs, the dues are a bargain, and workers would gladly pay them.
That is very good point. And see as the union handles my insurance and retirement, i would assume not paying dues you will not be entitled to any of those thing without paying the dues.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #43
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x2 Had this problem many times working for a non union company with other union companys on site. Whats stupid is union guys are normally asshats for no reason other than your non union. It should be up to the employee, and im glad this passed.

Im not saying all unions are all bad news, just alot more bad examples then good these days, just open your eyes.
I have no probem non union guys but if you look at their situation their pay, insurance and ect. Is probley not is good. There are some extremely talented non union people in the building trades and if given the chance i bet most would go union given the oppertunity. The union in my eyes is a group of skilled people just fiighting for fair conditions. Whats wrong with standing together and saying that we want decent pay and benifets.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:17 PM   #44
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Ive never had problems getting good pay with benifits out of most of my jobs without unions, and currently have a great paying job with benfits paid 100% by my employer, and im still non union..hmm wonder how that happened without a all mighty union to back me? Oh thats right I didnt need it, nor have ever and enjoyed all my extra money from my hard work. If your job sucks that bad with shitty pay and no bennys and a shitty work enviroment then why stay? Back in my great grandpa's time and before that I bet it helped so that didnt have to work extreme hours for little pay because of lack of laws, but today with all the laws in place to protect workers and make employers, unions dont seem protect shit except people who abuse the system to keep their job. Their overpaid, over benifited job that just costs the employer more to run and drives prices up and up and im some cases bankrupts the whole company and no one gets shit. Pay should be detirmated work ethic and value to company not just because your certified in something and a shitty employee.

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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #45
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That is very good point. And see as the union handles my insurance and retirement, i would assume not paying dues you will not be entitled to any of those thing without paying the dues.
The union handles your retirment and that doesn't concern you?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #46
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Unions are not all bad. I used to be a union iron worker. Pay was good Benny's were good. I find most people that are against unions have never been part of a union. And I find them to pissed off or jealous of the fact they are not. With that being said.
I have worked for 2 unions. First was in high school at a grocery store in the retail clerk's union. My buddy and I got hired there 3 days apart. During those 3 days, a pay scale went through. For the next 4 years my buddy made $0.10 an hour more than me. 16 hours of actual work experience gave him a pay scale higher than me for years. Yup, screwed by the union #1.

I went to work at Pontiac Motors when I was 21. I worked hard and learned all the jobs on my portion of the line. My boss made me an extra man that covered for people when they were late, sick, needed to use the bathroom etc. When layoffs started, he kept me because I could train the new people coming to the line. He kept me 2 weeks beyond my layoff date. Then a union rep came to him and said "you will lay that man off today". That's the last day I worked for Pontiac Motor. It wasn't Pontiac Motors that laid me off, it was the union. Yup, screwd by the union #2.

So, yes, I have worked as a union imployee and I don't have any use for them in today's world.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #47
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I spent most of my day yesterday in the MI Senate gallery. I was appalled by the actions of most of our senators. I watched many of them reading newspapers, texting, facebooking, watching videos and one guy took a 1/2hr nap while they were in session. Bad enough they got 2.5 hrs for lunch break and took another 20 minute break at 3. We pay these people well to represent us in there and they are only required to work parttime. You would think that they would bother to at least look like they give a damn. There were many other bills decided on yesterday besides the right to work and pro life garbage.
Gretchen Whitmer, Coleman Young ll, Tonya Schuitmaker and a guy from Flint were the only ones that seemed to be paying attention all day.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #48
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I don't mind the fact that people will have the choice to join the union or not to join, I mind the fact that those people who opt out will be given the same package as the represented members.

The union is who negotiated with the company for those benefits, pay scales, vacation days, etc...and for some Joe Schmo to walk in off the street, opt out of the Union and receive that same package is a joke. They should start at 0 and negotiate their own deal, and the represented workers contract should have no bearing on their own.

You should have to pay to play, aka pay the dues to reap the benefits. But if anybody can hire into the company, opt out and receive the same deal...why would anybody join? Why buy the cow if you get the milk for free, right?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #49
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I don't mind the fact that people will have the choice to join the union or not to join, I mind the fact that those people who opt out will be given the same package as the represented members.

The union is who negotiated with the company for those benefits, pay scales, vacation days, etc...and for some Joe Schmo to walk in off the street, opt out of the Union and receive that same package is a joke. They should start at 0 and negotiate their own deal, and the represented workers contract should have no bearing on their own.

You should have to pay to play, aka pay the dues to reap the benefits. But if anybody can hire into the company, opt out and receive the same deal...why would anybody join? Why buy the cow if you get the milk for free, right?
Sounds like a union problem . . . I mean you guys are really good at carrying/keeping worthless people around and taking advantage of the company but it seems like when a worker wants to do the same to you it then becomes an issue.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #50
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Sounds like a union problem . . . I mean you guys are really good at carrying/keeping worthless people around and taking advantage of the company but it seems like when a worker wants to do the same to you it then becomes an issue.
You say we carry the lazy but you are completely wrong. Maybe in the uaw they do but in the building traded if you cant work hard and do a good job you will be down the road in no time. Ive been at my job for 5 years now and ive seen many come and go that couldnt cut it.

There are a ton of non union people that make great money and have a great job. What im saying is for someone.like myself that was fresh out of highschool with no interest in college the union trades gave me a great oppertunity at a great career and i was payed to go to apprenticship school. There will always be this arguement just like ford vs chevy. You just have to decide what works for you and not having the goverment trying to get in between it. If everyone chose a non union job then the unions will die off that way.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:20 PM   #51
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I have worked at both UAW and Teamster shops, and prefer non-union. Union shops always pointed to the pay scale when I tried to get a merit raise since I did 3x the work of someone else in the department who got the same wage.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #52
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well if its any consolation all the people who work hard at sucking managers dicks will have loads of knee time to look forward too. as it will be the only thing to keep you on the job after you crush the unions
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:02 PM   #53
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Why are those unions protected?
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theoretically both services are where colleagues are in situations where one could potentially literally have a colleague's life in one's hands.

if you have a union-hold-out on a force that is largely union based, the tension/friction isn't just to the point of being inefficient, but could impact critical life saving efforts provided to the public and/or to each other on the force.


edit: it also could have created an even larger protest where men/women in uniform have a "sick-in" and show up in force, wearing uniforms and creates some seriously bad P.R. for those electeds voting for this bill.

next election cycle: "so and so is anti public safety" with a photo of them protesting in the background...
Having served as a business agent for these types of orginazations (of better reputation) I see many of them mainly fight for higher educational requirements, better training and contract wording that allows them to rid themselvs of the 'wanna-be's' that slip through the screening process. No one that can do those jobs potentially wants someone that can't holding their life in their hands. Espically someone so stupid they will forgo any money or benefits just to carry a gun or squirt a hose.

If an idiot that can't do the job screws up and acts outside the scope of their training, P&P's or law they can be dumped without the worry of vicarious liability on the municipality. As more of these 'wanna be' people are left to legally fend for themselvs by the courts without any harm to the governent body, it hardly serves as a deterrent for that government to not hire idiots.

As for wages and benefits, union cops and firemen aren't getting rich and most that have done it full time for 30 years die by their early to mid 60's.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #54
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People seem to suck too much union cock to look passed the simple "RTW states make less on average" and ignore that they have lower unemployment rates with more above median paying jobs than Forced-union, and a lower cost of living average.

I'll take it.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:46 PM   #55
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well if its any consolation all the people who work hard at sucking managers dicks will have loads of knee time to look forward too. as it will be the only thing to keep you on the job after you crush the unions
Sorry, no penis osculation here. In fact, my ass gets kissed because everyone else they have tried to get to help me out has failed miserably. Including the current guy who is a friend of the owner.

If your skills are in demand you will get work. If you are a mindless drone, eh, not so much.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #56
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If you are a mindless drone, eh, not so much.
gotta love the irony in this thread.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #57
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Where's the irony?

I have job skills that are in demand, since the age of 16 I haven't been without a job for more than 24 hours. My latest job was offered to me, and was held for me, whenever I wanted it. I currently get job offers from companies that I go to servicing their equipment.

I have worked for union companies, I have decided they are not for me.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #58
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Why do you think the South is full of transplant auto manufacturers?

You'd have to be on crack to build a new auto manufacturing facility from the ground up just to have to deal with unions.
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #59
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I don't mind the fact that people will have the choice to join the union or not to join, I mind the fact that those people who opt out will be given the same package as the represented members.

The union is who negotiated with the company for those benefits, pay scales, vacation days, etc...and for some Joe Schmo to walk in off the street, opt out of the Union and receive that same package is a joke. They should start at 0 and negotiate their own deal, and the represented workers contract should have no bearing on their own.

You should have to pay to play, aka pay the dues to reap the benefits. But if anybody can hire into the company, opt out and receive the same deal...why would anybody join? Why buy the cow if you get the milk for free, right?

What's gonna happen when those people negotiate a better deal than the one the union managed for their guys?

That's a serious question. Not taking a jab at you.

What will that say about the union and what message will it send to their members?
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Old December 7th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #60
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People seem to suck too much union cock to look passed the simple "RTW states make less on average" and ignore that they have lower unemployment rates with more above median paying jobs than Forced-union, and a lower cost of living average.

I'll take it.
Then move to a RTW state. Don't try to change this state into a RTW. I work with a guy that just transferred to my shop from south Carolina. He can't believe the pay hike he got. Back in SC he was making just under 13 dollars an hour. Comes here and instantly gets 22 an hour. Been with our company for 14 years. Does his job well and gets rewarded for it.

Now we are not union at my shop. But our other yards are. They pay us more to try and keep the union out. But on the same token they will "bully" certain guys. And make them do things they won't even ask others to do. That's where I miss the union. Same job and same pay for all. What's wrong with that?
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