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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #21
High Center Hancho
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As defined does "front grip" include a forearm for racking a pump shotgun? I.e. if I put a pistol grip on a shotgun with an 18.5" barrel resulting in a 28" OAL - can't that (/wouldn't that have to) be registered as a pistol, at least until the change in law?

And if I understand correctly, and the law does change on the 1st, then that under 30" pistol definition will be changed to under 26" and the gun described above will just be a regular shotgun unless previously registered as a pistol? Point being that you wouldn't be able to carry it loaded (with CPL) inside a vehicle unless registered as a pistol under current law?
a shotgun must have an overall lengh of 26" not 28", and pistol grips are legal, so I'm not sure what you are asking. Short barrel shotguns are any shotgun with barrels under 18" or an overall of under 26", those cannot be registered a a pistol or legal to own.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #22
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a shotgun must have an overall lengh of 26" not 28", and pistol grips are legal, so I'm not sure what you are asking. Short barrel shotguns are any shotgun with barrels under 18" or an overall of under 26", those cannot be registered a a pistol or legal to own.
I was under the impression that a shotgun with a pistol grip measuring more than 26" but less than 30" was considered a pistol (for now) and must be registered as such.



Like that, not a pistol grip with an extendable butt stock.

Shit is confusing.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #23
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By the way, I think that setup is pretty worthless and wouldn't own one, just wondering.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #24
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By the way, I think that setup is pretty worthless and wouldn't own one, just wondering.
I saw a guy lose one of those at Lapeer pit, jumped right out of his hands.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #25
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I bought a Mossberg 500 JIC a couple of years ago, it's a pistol grip 12 gauge. I had to get a purchase permit to take it home. So by that logic, if you buy a standard Mossberg 500 with a butt stock, and then remove the stock and replace it with a pistol grip, you have just created a pistol in the eyes of Michigan, and broke the law. At least that is how it was explained to me.

And yes, I sold it because I found a pistol grip shotgun to be complete garbage. The guy I sold it to had a CPL and was a repo man, maybe he found it more useful.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #26
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I bought a Mossberg 500 JIC a couple of years ago, it's a pistol grip 12 gauge. I had to get a purchase permit to take it home. So by that logic, if you buy a standard Mossberg 500 with a butt stock, and then remove the stock and replace it with a pistol grip, you have just created a pistol in the eyes of Michigan, and broke the law. At least that is how it was explained to me.
Purty much. Main reason I didn't go with a folding stock on mine, just didn't care for the gray area.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by seadooxpguy View Post
I bought a Mossberg 500 JIC a couple of years ago, it's a pistol grip 12 gauge. I had to get a purchase permit to take it home. So by that logic, if you buy a standard Mossberg 500 with a butt stock, and then remove the stock and replace it with a pistol grip, you have just created a pistol in the eyes of Michigan, and broke the law. At least that is how it was explained to me.
But not if you register it as a pistol before changing the stock.... right?

Good point though, I forgot about the stock setups like that, drrrr. Hancho's "front grip" thing threw my brain for a loop (long day).
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Old December 5th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mtnbikinbryno View Post
I was under the impression that a shotgun with a pistol grip measuring more than 26" but less than 30" was considered a pistol (for now) and must be registered as such.
Unless its different rules for shotguns, right now that sounds correct. So in addition to a pistol gripped long gun, if you have a folding or collapsible shoulder stock that can reduce the length down to that 30"-26" range it currently also has to be registered as a pistol.

Last edited by Ebs; December 5th, 2012 at 09:13 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #29
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Unless its different rules for shotguns, right now that sounds correct. So in addition to a pistol gripped long gun, if you have a folding or collapsible shoulder stock that can reduce the length down to that 30"-26" range it currently also has to be registered as a pistol.
Exactly. So guns like the Sig 556 are actually a Michigan pistol, but anyone who does not know the rules, or has actually seen one would think its a rifle.

There is a definite grey-ish area with certain guns too. The GSG .22 MP5 replica/ripoff type guns is a rifle, it has a 16" barrel, you only need the standard rifle purchase to get it here in MI. But many gun dealers will sell you the folding stocks that go with those, which if you install it, you just created a MI pistol because it's not long enough. I do think you can re-register it as a handgun, but once its a handgun, always a handgun.

Then they have the shorter version of the same gun, it is sold as a pistol because it has something like an 8-9" barrel. It's sold with a purchase permit because its a handgun. If you add a folding stock to that, you just created a SBR, which is a no no in MI and needs a tax stamp elsewhere.

So how about that for confusing for people that don't read or know the rules.
I am taking this info from a couple different dealers over the years, they seemed to know their stuff so I took their word for it and have not dug through the piles of info on the net to verify.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
There is a definite grey-ish area with certain guns too. The GSG .22 MP5 replica/ripoff type guns is a rifle, it has a 16" barrel, you only need the standard rifle purchase to get it here in MI. But many gun dealers will sell you the folding stocks that go with those, which if you install it, you just created a MI pistol because it's not long enough. I do think you can re-register it as a handgun, but once its a handgun, always a handgun.
Don't confuse federal law with state law . Your Mi pistol (16 inch barrel and butt stock under 30) is still considered a rifle in the feds eyes. So once a rifle always an rifle.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #31
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True about the feds, I was referring to MI law about the handgun part, you can't go and sell it as a rifle when it is currently registered as a handgun, in MI at least.

I really wish we could just do away with all the MI crap and go by the federal law on all this stuff, much of it does work in our favor.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 10:54 PM   #32
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Good god I'm glad I moved. Gun laws in MI are fucked.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #33
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