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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:42 PM   #41
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You may be educated in the science (or lack of for that matter) of biology and intelligent design and so may I be educated in the fields of policy constitutional issues (B.A. in economics, B.S. in public administration and public policy, Masters of public administration with a concentration in school administration) so I feel confident in stating that legally, intelligent desing has no place being taught in a high school biology class... and the 3rd U.S. District Court would agree with me.
At a point in time, it was also stated that we couldnt have a sparks around the campfire. Times change. People discover more of the facts and things change.
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:43 PM   #42
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in all of your history, you should know that it's easier to rally people to fight for something, than against something - especially if one offers no substitute.

and obviously, there is/was just enough "well that makes sense" in evolution that it's even harder to rally people to "fight against it".
Well if that is the case and theres enough "well that makes sense" in it, then why will you be fighting against the majority?
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:43 PM   #43
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I'm just glad we finally got a topic on here worth posting on besides who is going to the MJ Christmas party or who's driveway got plowed in
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:44 PM   #44
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I'm just glad we finally got a topic on here worth posting on besides who is going to the MJ Christmas party or who's driveway got plowed in
Yea, I havent recieved a single nasty gram yet for this thread........ O wait... theres a few mods who arnt mods on here :tonka:
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:44 PM   #45
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Condeming non-believers to hell is a little harsh on their part dont ya think?
the discussion as to whether hell is a "condemnation" or even a "bad place" is something else entirely.

not all who quote from the bible, or even earnestly believe in its various interpretations believe that you heathens are going to "burn in hell".

there are volumes and volumes of literature on what "hell is".

right now, I'm actually escaping from a piece of it, by typing in this thread and pretending to be too busy to meet with some very annoying colleagues...
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:46 PM   #46
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the discussion as to whether hell is a "condemnation" or even a "bad place" is something else entirely.

not all who quote from the bible, or even earnestly believe in its various interpretations believe that you heathens are going to "burn in hell".

there are volumes and volumes of literature on what "hell is".

right now, I'm actually escaping from a piece of it, by typing in this thread and pretending to be too busy to meet with some very annoying colleagues...
:tonka: :tonka: I'm trying my damnest to stay on topic and believe into the basis of the ID theory
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:46 PM   #47
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Well if that is the case and theres enough "well that makes sense" in it, then why will you be fighting against the majority?
face it, the majority in this country are still christains. they're just weak christains, and prefer to have their lives divided. one of the books I read referred to them as "cultural christains".

they believe in all of the "honor thy neighbor's stuff" on a daily basis but do not fully entreanch themselves in many of the principles. (most non-believers are thanking god that it's the case :tonka: )

as for why fight against it? until we knew better, it made sense that the earth was flat....
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:48 PM   #48
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face it, the majority in this country are still christains. they're just weak christains, and prefer to have their lives divided. one of the books I read referred to them as "cultural christains".
If you believe in something like that... it is lived to the fullest. The implications are far to great.

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they believe in all of the "honor thy neighbor's stuff" on a daily basis but do not fully entreanch themselves in many of the principles. (most non-believers are thanking god that it's the case :tonka: )
Wouldnt that just be the common decency of man? again off topic.

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as for why fight against it? until we knew better, it made sense that the earth was flat....
its not? holy crap. We gotta tell the guys who landed on the moon. Whens the dell dude get out for his pot charges? :tonka: :tonka:
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:52 PM   #49
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If you believe in something like that... it is lived to the fullest. The implications are far to great.
on the surface yes, but real life gets in the way. often most of us who understand the importance of voting for example forget to. some who believe it just accept the fact that "we are doomed to be sinners" and then just repeatedly repent. vicious self berating perhaps, but I've seen it.

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Wouldnt that just be the common decency of man? again off topic.
perhaps, and yes off topic - but I've seen enough indecency to wonder if it's so "common" to be decent.
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:53 PM   #50
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I'm just glad we finally got a topic on here worth posting on besides who is going to the MJ Christmas party or who's driveway got plowed in
I think my post count tripled, just in this thread :o :tonka:
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Old December 20th, 2005, 12:54 PM   #51
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I hope dave shows up. He's always a good debator.
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:00 PM   #52
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I hope dave shows up. He's always a good debator.
indeed he is. he's also much more established in his beliefs, and thus more heavily defends them as well.

I have my own personal beliefs, but there's always enough antagonist/devil's advocate in me to be able to think outside of my own belief system.

and yes, some of my beliefs were so relatively recently acquired, that I haven't bothered to face some of the more uncomfortable aspects head on.

(how many of us put our heads in the sand, or postpone some things? ) :)
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:02 PM   #53
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Good points there
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:05 PM   #54
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and no, I'm not trying to start a thread hi-jack. but how many of us believe in a sense of soul, or "id"?

is everything that makes up the way you think, your emotions just a chemical reaction?

if it's just a chemical reaction, then are we really on the path to "immortality" through some of our bio-engineering efforts, or even brain transplants into donor/clone bodies?

I understand chemicals have a huge role in my emotions, but I have a tougher time accepting that they are the sole reason I'm feeling something, than I do of accepting that each of us has a soul.

:dunno:
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:10 PM   #55
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The fact you have the ability to think freely lets you experiance those emtions
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:33 PM   #56
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Have you seen the animal kingdom tree? Please dont take this as insulting your education but as with a normal tree its trunks down to a single stalk. thats...the begining. There are many branches off on their own and many connected into the tree. There are thousands and thousands of variations. We are still to this day discovering new species. Isnt it conciable(sp) that we just havent found those links yet?
You are talking about micro-evolution not MACRO-evolution. MACRO-evolution states that their are large jumps between species lines by mutation. MICRO-evolution is just change within species...which I do believe in. These are very different topics. One is fact, the other is unproven theory. We are talkingabout MACRO-evolution.

I do not take that as an insult to my education. I actually take it as a complement because you just proved why it is important to know what your talking about!! You guys really need to bring some good arguements to the table here. I'm getting bored
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:41 PM   #57
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You are talking about micro-evolution not MACRO-evolution. MACRO-evolution states that their are large jumps between species lines by mutation. MICRO-evolution is just change within species...which I do believe in. These are very different topics. One is fact, the other is unproven theory. We are talkingabout MACRO-evolution.

I do not take that as an insult to my education. I actually take it as a complement because you just proved why it is important to know what your talking about!! You guys really need to bring some good arguements to the table here. I'm getting bored
actually the idea of macro and micro is rather blurred dont you think?

Macro to us is the whole thing. However Macro to the giant noodle that planted up here is its entire thing and earth is just a micro.

You just twisted what I said. Fundamentaly is Micro is proven to exsist is it really that hard to think that macro wont be very far behind?
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:42 PM   #58
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IF you are so bored with the topic at hand, how come there isnt any proof towards your side? I just looked through your posts and didnt see any solid, logical, scientific proof stating your case.
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:53 PM   #59
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Man this thread is growing faster than I can read it. Ok, the reason Darwin's Theory is taught is simple. Science pure and to the core. Darwin's Theory is based on his observations and collected data. It follows in the basic principles of science. If you follow Darwin's work you will find that he makes no broad leaps in the actual collected observations. Granted the interpretations to species and patterns can be called into question since they are treated as truth through similarity. The reason Darwin is taught though is because of the premise behind his methods and his search for an explanation through observation, collection, and correllation.

Inteligent Design would be given a fair chance in schools if it had sufficient scientific backing behind it and was able to provide a concrete display of the scientific research principles behind it. As this particular case was handled, forcing teachers to mention a theory without any physical evidence whatsoever goes against the very heart and soul behind science.
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Old December 20th, 2005, 01:56 PM   #60
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Man this thread is growing faster than I can read it. Ok, the reason Darwin's Theory is taught is simple. Science pure and to the core. Darwin's Theory is based on his observations and collected data. It follows in the basic principles of science. If you follow Darwin's work you will find that he makes no broad leaps in the actual collected observations. Granted the interpretations to species and patterns can be called into question since they are treated as truth through similarity. The reason Darwin is taught though is because of the premise behind his methods and his search for an explanation through observation, collection, and correllation.

Inteligent Design would be given a fair chance in schools if it had sufficient scientific backing behind it and was able to provide a concrete display of the scientific research principles behind it. As this particular case was handled, forcing teachers to mention a theory without any physical evidence whatsoever goes against the very heart and soul behind science.
Very well said... couldn't have said it better myself.
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