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Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:30 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Icemanii View Post
As with any story, there are three sides. Your side, their side and the truth that us somewhere in between.

We have your side of the story, I would be interested in hearing the other side.


Not that anyone on the internet would ever embellish a story just to make themselves out to be the victim/good guy/wronged person.
Shit never happens. :o
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Icemanii View Post
As with any story, there are three sides. Your side, their side and the truth that us somewhere in between.

We have your side of the story, I would be interested in hearing the other side.


Not that anyone on the internet would ever embellish a story just to make themselves out to be the victim/good guy/wronged person.
I like the part at the begining of the thread about brother living in the same town, now he lives across the hall at mummy and duddy's house.

Seriously OP, 23 years old and still living at home? Take some pride in yourself and carry your weight in society. Will you have less money to spend? You're damn right but that's what responsable adults do, they take care of the bills first and IF anything is left over, they have some fun money.

Your parents need to be raped by chimpanzees for not having the smarts to get rid of your brother and teach you some life survival skills. My personal opinion is that a person should have all the skills they need to make it on their own by the time they are 18. Nowdays, people are (sometimes) taught what they need when they turn 18.

Life is hard, suck it up and put on a helmet.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 01:55 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by SS View Post
http://www.schmierlaw.com/PracticeAr...ossession.html

You need to consult a lawyer. I started digging up A LOT of this type of thing with a simple google search.



By living with a felon, a firearm in the house could be easily construed as "constructive possession" even if it's in a lock box or a safe and the firearm does not belong to him. This is most likely what the Chief is going to reference when it comes down to a legal fight. Your brother's lack of judgement and disregard for the law is probably going to continue to affect your own rights as long as you continue to live in the same house as him.

Like a bunch of us have said... you need to contact a lawyer since knowing the law is their job compared to all of us Google lawyers on an off road forum. I would start with the lawyer who's page I linked to above since he's local, his first consultation is free and since he even has that tid bit on his page he's most likely extremely knowledgeable in matters pertaining to this. The "constructive possession" part looks to be a common theme on dozens of sites in reference to this exact issue and from what I read it doesn't look like you have a chance in hell of beating it, once again, as long as you continue to live with a felon pending even more charges.

Another great lump of info and commonly mentioned issue I discovered in my quick research on your problem highlights that if he is on probation or parole and they do a check on the house and discover firearms, even locked up in a safe or if you have it in the nightstand, etc. your brother will be going to prison for five years and you could face charges yourself. Even though what the Chief is doing at this moment doesn't appear to be legal his action in this matter may have just saved you and your brother from a whole lot of problems resulting in your buying the pistol. Be friendly and ask him if this is why he's denying you. Phrase it as "After I did some more research on my end I want to thank you for not issuing the permit at first since I didn't know about the constructive possession aspect of the law and it could've caused a whole mess of problems for my brother and I because of his stupidity. If my brother moved out would you have a problem issuing me the purchase permit?" See what his answer is and move on from there. I wouldn't doubt if he came back with a positive answer. You may not like him but by approaching him as more of a respectful friend you'll knock down the "this guy is an asshole" barriers that he has up and you'll most likely reach a better outcome in all this and quite possibly have a new ally in the police department.
That.

I didn't have time to look it up but I see it all the time now that I'm selling firearms. Guys think they can get around their felonies by having their wife come in and buy for them. Doesn't work. If your address comes up being associated with a felon, they will deny you.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 02:04 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
I like the part at the begining of the thread about brother living in the same town, now he lives across the hall at mummy and duddy's house.

Seriously OP, 23 years old and still living at home? Take some pride in yourself and carry your weight in society. Will you have less money to spend? You're damn right but that's what responsable adults do, they take care of the bills first and IF anything is left over, they have some fun money.

Your parents need to be raped by chimpanzees for not having the smarts to get rid of your brother and teach you some life survival skills. My personal opinion is that a person should have all the skills they need to make it on their own by the time they are 18. Nowdays, people are (sometimes) taught what they need when they turn 18.

Life is hard, suck it up and put on a helmet.
[QUOTE] I left the police station feeling very violated because I am 23 years old have a great job, graduate college in 15 days and have never even had a speeding ticket on my record and I am denied my right because of my brother. Keep in mind my brother has never been convicted of a felony but does have pending charges.
[QUOTE]
If living with his parents allowed him to finish school good for him he did much better Joe with his life than his brother.
Now is the time to distance yourself from bad influences like your brother.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:10 PM   #65
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[quote=Easy_E;3225201][QUOTE] I left the police station feeling very violated because I am 23 years old have a great job, graduate college in 15 days and have never even had a speeding ticket on my record and I am denied my right because of my brother. Keep in mind my brother has never been convicted of a felony but does have pending charges.
Quote:
If living with his parents allowed him to finish school good for him he did much better Joe with his life than his brother.
Now is the time to distance yourself from bad influences like your brother.
After seeing your information, I am forced to recind my previous statement about OP's housing and long term goals. Appologies to OP and a kick in the nuts to his brother.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 03:24 PM   #66
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[quote=Easy_E;3225201]
Quote:
If living with his parents allowed him to finish school good for him he did much better Joe with his life than his brother.
Now is the time to distance yourself from bad influences like your brother.
Agreed on both counts.

Tell your parents to boot that scumbag brother of yours out of the house. 2 problems solved.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 04:45 PM   #67
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[quote=Nuggets;3225213][quote=Easy_E;3225201]
Quote:
I left the police station feeling very violated because I am 23 years old have a great job, graduate college in 15 days and have never even had a speeding ticket on my record and I am denied my right because of my brother. Keep in mind my brother has never been convicted of a felony but does have pending charges.


After seeing your information, I am forced to recind my previous statement about OP's housing and long term goals. Appologies to OP and a kick in the nuts to his brother.
That will just make his brother think of candy.


Forget about the permit, CPL, police chief, etc.... get your own place because your d-bag brother is going to just fukc up your life until he straightens his out. If he's a known druggie, the cops are watching him to see if he is dealing. If they charge him with dealing, they can take the house and everything in it as being 'bought with drug money', and you will play hell proving it wasn't.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 07:42 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
http://www.schmierlaw.com/PracticeAr...ossession.html

You need to consult a lawyer. I started digging up A LOT of this type of thing with a simple google search.



By living with a felon, a firearm in the house could be easily construed as "constructive possession" even if it's in a lock box or a safe and the firearm does not belong to him. This is most likely what the Chief is going to reference when it comes down to a legal fight. Your brother's lack of judgement and disregard for the law is probably going to continue to affect your own rights as long as you continue to live in the same house as him.

Like a bunch of us have said... you need to contact a lawyer since knowing the law is their job compared to all of us Google lawyers on an off road forum. I would start with the lawyer who's page I linked to above since he's local, his first consultation is free and since he even has that tid bit on his page he's most likely extremely knowledgeable in matters pertaining to this. The "constructive possession" part looks to be a common theme on dozens of sites in reference to this exact issue and from what I read it doesn't look like you have a chance in hell of beating it, once again, as long as you continue to live with a felon pending even more charges.

Another great lump of info and commonly mentioned issue I discovered in my quick research on your problem highlights that if he is on probation or parole and they do a check on the house and discover firearms, even locked up in a safe or if you have it in the nightstand, etc. your brother will be going to prison for five years and you could face charges yourself. Even though what the Chief is doing at this moment doesn't appear to be legal his action in this matter may have just saved you and your brother from a whole lot of problems resulting in your buying the pistol. Be friendly and ask him if this is why he's denying you. Phrase it as "After I did some more research on my end I want to thank you for not issuing the permit at first since I didn't know about the constructive possession aspect of the law and it could've caused a whole mess of problems for my brother and I because of his stupidity. If my brother moved out would you have a problem issuing me the purchase permit?" See what his answer is and move on from there. I wouldn't doubt if he came back with a positive answer. You may not like him but by approaching him as more of a respectful friend you'll knock down the "this guy is an asshole" barriers that he has up and you'll most likely reach a better outcome in all this and quite possibly have a new ally in the police department.
Really? I had a convicted felon fresh out of 15 years in prison living in my house while on probation. They would call in the middle of the night checking to see if this person was here. NEVER, EVER, EVER was I questioned about weapons in my home. Never.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 07:50 PM   #69
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Really? I had a convicted felon fresh out of 15 years in prison living in my house while on probation. They would call in the middle of the night checking to see if this person was here. NEVER, EVER, EVER was I questioned about weapons in my home. Never.
Did you have any, or did you possess them before he arrived?

Kind of curious, my neighbor is not supposed to have access to firearms but he's helping with the remodel on my house. I would hate to cause him any legal trouble.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 07:56 PM   #70
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Did you own any handguns ? They are the only ones they have record of.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:13 PM   #71
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Really? I had a convicted felon fresh out of 15 years in prison living in my house while on probation. They would call in the middle of the night checking to see if this person was here. NEVER, EVER, EVER was I questioned about weapons in my home. Never.
So?

Do a google search and you'll find plenty of people that did.

You would appear to be in the minority on that issue and got lucky. Don't come at me all huffin' and puffin' because the vast amount of information out there points to a different situation being the norm.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:30 PM   #72
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I still want to see the law that says you loose your 2nd amendment rights when a convicted criminal lives at the same address. You keep saying this but can't prove it. People are also using the term felon. I must have missed where he said his brother was a convicted felon.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:34 PM   #73
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I still want to see the law that says you loose your 2nd amendment rights when a convicted criminal lives at the same address. You keep saying this but can't prove it. People are also using the term felon. I must have missed where he said his brother wasn't a convicted felon.
Fixed. This officer needs to be fired, and jailed if the op story is true.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 09:06 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemanii View Post
As with any story, there are three sides. Your side, their side and the truth that us somewhere in between.

We have your side of the story, I would be interested in hearing the other side.


Not that anyone on the internet would ever embellish a story just to make themselves out to be the victim/good guy/wronged person.
I would say it to be true friend of mine was given a ticket by utica pd for failure to stop at a stop sign, however i was in the car and we sat at the sign for a good 5 mississippi's. They are crooked as can be, some are nice but most aren't.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 09:23 PM   #75
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I would say it to be true friend of mine was given a ticket by utica pd for failure to stop at a stop sign, however i was in the car and we sat at the sign for a good 5 mississippi's. They are crooked as can be, some are nice but most aren't.
Really? Were you stopped completely behind the wide white line? Or over it. Tires were stopped fully and the two of you sat there counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi....??

Sorry, stating most cops are crooked is a generalization that to me, is just repeating things you heard on the internet.

And yes, I am playing Devil's advocate.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 10:00 PM   #76
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Really? Were you stopped completely behind the wide white line? Or over it. Tires were stopped fully and the two of you sat there counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi....??

Sorry, stating most cops are crooked is a generalization that to me, is just repeating things you heard on the internet.

And yes, I am playing Devil's advocate.
I was in court in Shelby. Guy ahead of me got a rolling a stop sign ticket. He had proof that where the cop was parked, they could not see if he stopped behind the white line. He asked the judge, how many times Do I have to stop at a stop sign, the judge said as many times an necassary, ever since then I realize it don't matter if the cop isn't right, the judge will side with them. That shit still makes my blood boil.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 10:54 PM   #77
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Thanks for the personal attacks about living with my parents, I will be buying a house in the next couple of months when I find out where I will be working permanently. Right now I am based out of Auburn Hills, but have had offers in Asheville N.C, and Mississippi. I did not think buying a house in this area was a smart decision for me because then I would be stuck in this area.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 10:58 PM   #78
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And as for the responses about becoming a productive citizen I would like to see anyone here who puts more hours a week in between school and work. I work 40 hours a week and have another good 30 hours a week b/w school and homework. I literally am at work or doing schoolwork monday-friday 7 A.M to 10 P.M. or later
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:08 PM   #79
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OK OP, try this. Start being courteous and professional when dealing with peoople in charge. If you disagree with something they say, tell them you would like references to what they are saying because you would like to read the information yourself. If you find information in your favor, highlight the information and make a copy(s) to give to authorities to review. If you are rebuffed, keep cool, thank them for their time, then take you quest to the next level.

If you are 23 and your dumbfuck doper brother lives in the same house as you, I would assume you still live with your parents. If that is the case, man the fukc up and move out so you can be a productive member of society AND get your CPL without issue.
I was polite and courteous the entire time I was in there. I am always very polite and well spoken. I had printed out the purchase permit law and showed him the section about the requirements being for the applicant and not the household. He basically agreed with me and told me he does not care what the law says.

I'm sure if I went in there as a total asshole the chief would not have told me that he will put his decision in writing. He said he had to ask the city attorney if he could do it but he had no problem telling anybody exactly why I was denied. I welcome anybody who accuses me of lying or being an asshole in there to call the Utica Police Department at (586) 731-2345. If the chief keeps with his word he says he will tell anyone the reason
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:41 AM   #80
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So?

Do a google search and you'll find plenty of people that did.

You would appear to be in the minority on that issue and got lucky. Don't come at me all huffin' and puffin' because the vast amount of information out there points to a different situation being the norm.
I'm not huffing and puffing. I'm simply stating a fact. The issue of what guns I owned at the time was never brought up by anyone including his parole officer.

This happened years ago, long before the internet or the ability to do a google search. (probably while you were still in diapers) Maybe the laws have changed, I don't know. No, I didn't get lucky. It was my home and no one ever said I needed to remove a weapon. If they had, he would not have been allowed to stay with us. We were never interviewed and our house was not inspected.
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