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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:24 PM   #21
Hunter9
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Does your brother live in the same house you do?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:27 PM   #22
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I called the Chief after leaving asking if he could put it in writing that is why he is denying me and he said he was fine with that but had to talk to the city attorney on monday. I will wait until monday and go in and see if I can either get the letter he promised or has had a change of heart after talking to the attorney (which I'm sure she is not going to let him put that in writing)
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hunter9 View Post
Does your brother live in the same house you do?
yes, until he is convicted for probation violation then I am sure he will be doing some jail time
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 94transam25th View Post
yes, until he is convicted for probation violation then I am sure he will be doing some jail time
Well then- problem solved.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94transam25th View Post
yes, until he is convicted for probation violation then I am sure he will be doing some jail time
And the chief knew this?


If he did it looks like he's denying you because there is a repeat drug offender living in the house where the pistol will be stored. Kind of hard not to see the logic in that.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boggin-machine View Post
hmm. for some reason i thought there was. i would get on applying for that cpl man. what you waiting for?
Someone I know was late in applying after taking the class and has to retake the class.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
And the chief knew this?


If he did it looks like he's denying you because there is a repeat drug offender living in the house where the pistol will be stored. Kind of hard not to see the logic in that.
This is what the law says:

Quote:
(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

(i) Section 464a of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.

(ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.

(iii) Section 2950 of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.

(iv) Section 2950a of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.

(v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.

(vi) Section 6b of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.

(vii) Section 16b of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.

(b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

(c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:

(i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300.

(ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state.

(iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state.

(iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state.

(d) A felony charge or a criminal charge listed in section 5b against the person is not pending at the time of application.

(e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.

(f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

(g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

(h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

(i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the department of state police and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license.
That is what the law says, nothing about somebody in the household. When did the chief of police of a small town gain the right to add requirements to a state law and infringe on 2nd Amendment Rights?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94transam25th View Post
This is what the law says:



That is what the law says, nothing about somebody in the household. When did the chief of police of a small town gain the right to add requirements to a state law and infringe on 2nd Amendment Rights?
Didn't say it was legal. I said it's obvious the chief has a problem issuing a PP to someone with a repeat drug offender pending more charges living with them.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:47 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
And the chief knew this?


If he did it looks like he's denying you because there is a repeat drug offender living in the house where the pistol will be stored. Kind of hard not to see the logic in that.
The law makes no mention of that. What the chief is doing is illegal.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boggin-machine View Post
i cant remember but isnt there a certain time frame to apply for your cpl after you take the class?
One year from the date on your certificate.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94transam25th View Post
yes, until he is convicted for probation violation then I am sure he will be doing some jail time
Ahhh, see that is more to the story lol. Him living in the same house as you does make a difference. It's too close axcess to a weapon

And maybe i didn't read it at first but your brother already has priors; those two things make a big difference.

Edit: I'm not sure where but I know that your brother already having priors, and living in the same household as you will get your PP and CPL denied, I couldn't tell you what the specific wording is, but basically it's easy access to a firearm
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:52 PM   #32
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make a call to the NRA, let them fight it for you. sit back and watch the fireworks. It sucks, but this is small town usa in action. I would say you have a 50/50 chance on Monday. Good luck!
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
One year from the date on your certificate.
If this is true I was told wrong info my multiple people.

edit, from a quick search it looks like the place that does the cert can put an experation date, but there is no state law.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:59 PM   #34
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This stuff used to happen all the time around here. Now there is a new law that states if the requirements are met by the applicant, the permit must be issued. Used to be up to the officers discretion, which is complete bullshit.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:05 PM   #35
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I pretty much got my cpl right after turning 21 i don't see the point in waiting after you take the course. Being able to carry aside, it makes purchases so much easier. You can have a couple RI-060 forms in the truck and buy a pistol whenever you want.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:22 PM   #36
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thats crap, i got my cpl a few months ago, from what i was told unless you dont meet the requiredments for a cpl u get one. i took the corse and paid for the lic few weeks later i got a call to come pick my cpl id up. never had to go infront of the board thats the old way they used to do it
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:32 PM   #37
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Any opinions on sending this to the mayor?

Quote:
Good Evening Mayor Noonan,

I am writing to you this evening to request a meeting this monday to talk about your chief of police violating my second amendment right to purchase a pistol. The law is very clear on this if your refer to the following Michigan Law

MCL 28-422

"(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

(a) The person is not subject to an order or disposition for which he or she has received notice and an opportunity for a hearing, and which was entered into the law enforcement information network pursuant to any of the following:

(i) Section 464a of the mental health code, 1974 PA 258, MCL 330.1464a.

(ii) Section 5107 of the estates and protected individuals code, 1998 PA 386, MCL 700.5107, or section 444a of former 1978 PA 642.

(iii) Section 2950 of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950.

(iv) Section 2950a of the revised judicature act of 1961, 1961 PA 236, MCL 600.2950a.

(v) Section 14 of 1846 RS 84, MCL 552.14.

(vi) Section 6b of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b, if the order has a condition imposed under section 6b(3) of chapter V of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 765.6b.

(vii) Section 16b of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.16b.

(b) The person is 18 years of age or older or, if the seller is licensed under 18 USC 923, is 21 years of age or older.

(c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:

(i) The person has a valid, lawfully obtained Michigan driver license issued under the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.1 to 257.923, or an official state personal identification card issued under 1972 PA 222, MCL 28.291 to 28.300.

(ii) The person is lawfully registered to vote in this state.

(iii) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is stationed outside of this state, but the person's home of record is in this state.

(iv) The person is on active duty status with the United States armed forces and is permanently stationed in this state, but the person's home of record is in another state.

(d) A felony charge or a criminal charge listed in section 5b against the person is not pending at the time of application.

(e) The person is not prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under section 224f of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.224f.

(f) The person has not been adjudged insane in this state or elsewhere unless he or she has been adjudged restored to sanity by court order.

(g) The person is not under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness.

(h) The person has not been adjudged legally incapacitated in this state or elsewhere. This subdivision does not apply to a person who has had his or her legal capacity restored by order of the court.

(i) The person correctly answers 70% or more of the questions on a basic pistol safety review questionnaire approved by the department of state police and provided to the individual free of charge by the licensing authority. If the person fails to correctly answer 70% or more of the questions on the basic pistol safety review questionnaire, the licensing authority shall inform the person of the questions he or she answered incorrectly and allow the person to attempt to complete another basic pistol safety review questionnaire. The person shall not be allowed to attempt to complete more than 2 basic pistol safety review questionnaires on any single day. The licensing authority shall allow the person to attempt to complete the questionnaire during normal business hours on the day the person applies for his or her license


The reason I was given for denial was that I have a younger brother with legal trouble and he would not allow firearms in this household. According to the law this is not at the discretion of the Chief, and because I as the Applicant meet all of the requirements he is required to issue a permit to purchase "With due speed and diligence." There is no law against having an offender in the house and I do not believe that the chief of police has the authority or the right to deny. If you could please give me a call at your earliest convenience I would appreciate it.

Best Regards
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:41 PM   #38
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Contact Shyster or Jim Simms on MGO. Jim Simms is not really on there any more but you can look him up. Both are noted as pretty good firearm issue attorneys.

The first call is always free.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:58 PM   #39
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I wouldn't send any letters until you contact an attorney.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:07 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
I wouldn't send any letters until you contact an attorney.
Seriously you need to take this advice and call a good firearm lawyer.
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