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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:46 PM   #1
94transam25th
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Default Denied Purchase Permit In Utica

Hello, I posted this in MGO but wanted to share my story here too. So here is the jist of it

I took the day off Monday to get my purchase permit hoping to have it for a black friday purchase. I went in monday filled out the form took the quiz and was told I might get it tuesday but they had a couple ahead of me and if they didnt get it to me tuesday I would have to wait until the following monday. I told her that was ridiculous considering if I lived a block over either way I would be in Shelby Twp. or Sterling Heights and it would take 5 minutes.

I went in tuesday on my lunch to see if my permit was ready and the lady who handles the permits told me I was denied but did not tell me why and I had to talk to the chief when he was in next.

So today (Wednesday) I went into the station to talk to the chief and get a reason for getting denied. I had expected him to make an excuse about records checks or something but he came right out and told me that as long as I live in Utica I will not get a PP because I have a brother who has legal trouble. I printed out the law and asked the chief which requirement do I not meet to get the permit and he told me I meet all of the requirements. I read him the part about the requirement to issue the permit as long as the chief does not have probable cause to believe the APPLICANT will cause harm to themselves or others. I asked him what probable cause he has to believe that I would be dangerous and he told me he doesn't know me and has no problem with me but he has a problem with my little brother. I then told the cop that according the the law I meet all of the requirements and he agreed saying I meet all of the requirements, and I told him that this is Michigan Law and my 2nd amendment right to own firearms and he cannot just add requirements. He basically told me tough there is nothing you can do about it besides challenge it in court. He told me that even if I appeal it through NICS he will still deny it everytime it comes back.

I left the police station feeling very violated because I am 23 years old have a great job, graduate college in 15 days and have never even had a speeding ticket on my record and I am denied my right because of my brother. Keep in mind my brother has never been convicted of a felony but does have pending charges.

Kicking myself for not recording the conversation with the chief because of his blatant disregard for my rights I called back later and asked the chief if he believed that denying me when acknowledging I meet all the requirements and denying me based on my brothers actions was legal if he would put that in writing for me. He said he had no problem telling anyone why he denied me but had to ask the city attorney if he was allowed to put it in writing.

I plan on going in on monday to see if I can pick up that letter and see if after his consultation with the city attorney he has a change of heart. If I do get that letter I plan on talking to a few lawyers to see the next steps. Seems like it should be a pretty open and shut case if he writes that in a letter

I'm looking for any advice on this because it looks like either route I take (Suing the City or Applying for a CPL) I wont be able to purchase a pistol for a couple months. Could this qualify me to get the CPL right away in order for me to purchase?

Any lawyers help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Brandon
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:51 PM   #2
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to get a cpl you will need to go in front of the gun board. that will include the chief.... there are numerous discussions about cpl questions and other threads about what will happen. search for it on mgo.

but that may be a good thing since all the meetings are recorded and in front of several people and all applicants for their cpl. they will have to state why your denied and for what reasons. he cant deny you for the hell of it.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:51 PM   #3
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Call/write the NRA, asking them what steps you should take. Wait until after Monday.
Be level headed about this.

Good luck.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:51 PM   #4
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I would contact a lawyer today and have them send a letter explaining your intent to pursue legal action against the city/department if they do not issue you the purchase permit. Even if you don't intend to follow through, this may ruffle enough feathers to shake things loose. And it's certainly much cheaper than actually suing the city.

Are you an NRA member? If not, sign up. I believe they have some lawyers who take on this type of legal action for cheap/free.

You will not get an expedited CPL.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:51 PM   #5
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to get a cpl you will need to go in front of the gun board. that will include the cheif.... there are numerous discussions about cpl questions and other threads about what will happen. search for it on mgo
He is asking for purchase permits, not CPL.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:55 PM   #6
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He is asking for purchase permits, not CPL.
he also mentioned cpl in the last line. look on the bottom of the page.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:58 PM   #7
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So what did your brother do to piss of the chief? What is he being charged with?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:59 PM   #8
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Get/talk to a lawyer about it and see what can be done. Or move to a diffrent town where your brother isnt causing trouble.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 03:59 PM   #9
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Guilt by association?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:01 PM   #10
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to get a cpl you will need to go in front of the gun board. that will include the chief.... there are numerous discussions about cpl questions and other threads about what will happen. search for it on mgo.

but that may be a good thing since all the meetings are recorded and in front of several people and all applicants for their cpl. they will have to state why your denied and for what reasons. he cant deny you for the hell of it.
I have already taken the CPL course but have not yet applied. I figured I get a Purchase permit and spend some time at the range first. In macomb county city chief does not sit on the gun board the county sheriff does, they handle CPL's
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:03 PM   #11
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i cant remember but isnt there a certain time frame to apply for your cpl after you take the class?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:04 PM   #12
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Did he show someone ?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:04 PM   #13
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i cant remember but isnt there a certain time frame to apply for your cpl after you take the class?
Nope.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:05 PM   #14
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So what did your brother do to piss of the chief? What is he being charged with?
Posession of marijuana and violating his probation for his last charge of having paraphenalia. In the summer when K2 was still legal he was caught with that and charged with paraphenalia for the zig zags and bowl he used to smoke it. I would understand the chiefs position a little more if my brother was a violent offender.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:06 PM   #15
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Nope.
hmm. for some reason i thought there was. i would get on applying for that cpl man. what you waiting for?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:07 PM   #16
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I would understand the chiefs position a little more if my brother was a violent offender.
That is still no excuse on his part.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:09 PM   #17
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That is still no excuse on his part.
I know the chief would still be in the wrong in that case but at least I could see where he is coming from on his position. Only thing my lazy ass brother does is sit on the couch and eat flaming hot cheetos. Not hurting anybody but himself IMO
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:12 PM   #18
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If you've been denied a PP then your most likley going to get denied a CPL too, even if you meet all the requirments for a CPL that doesn't mean your going to get it; it is still up to the discretion of the state/county to issue you one.

Seems like BS that the cheif denied your PP for pending charges, I would call and talk to him again; but don't go citing laws and reading what it says. I guarentee that just pissed him off ever more than he already was, for whatever reason he was. Just talk to him straight up, and be like "look, to me there isn't any good reason to deny my permint, unless you can tell me a good legal reason why you don't believe I shoudl have a PP, other than you just don't think I should have one; then I will take legal action. I don't want to, but if that's what it takes then fine. Pending charges don't mean anything, only what he was convicted of.



....I'll be honest, it does seem like there's more to this story than your telling; either you've met the cheif before and it ended badly or something happened where he was a grudge against you. When I got my CPL, I didn't even show up for the hearing (completely forgot about it) and I still got it in the mail a couple weeks later. Unless you have something on your record, some history or whatever you really shouldn't be denied a PP or a CPL for that matter
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:21 PM   #19
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Since all the medical stuff happened in the state, and the feds released a letter to all gun dealers not to sell medical patients any guns or ammo, i would say our gov has a hard on for guns and marijuana right now, now it is right that someone who takes morphine to be able to buy a gun and someone who wants to use marijuana instead cant? IMO no its not but cops and our leaders of this country do. K2 is some bullshit and their a reason its outlawed in this state, its garbage and it has side effects at high doses, hallucinations and delusions which could make even having a hand gun in house with your brother a bit sceptical to johnny law expecally if hes awaiting charges. Get a lawyer or move away from your brother if you want to buy a handgun.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:24 PM   #20
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If you've been denied a PP then your most likley going to get denied a CPL too, even if you meet all the requirments for a CPL that doesn't mean your going to get it; it is still up to the discretion of the state/county to issue you one.

Seems like BS that the cheif denied your PP for pending charges, I would call and talk to him again; but don't go citing laws and reading what it says. I guarentee that just pissed him off ever more than he already was, for whatever reason he was. Just talk to him straight up, and be like "look, to me there isn't any good reason to deny my permint, unless you can tell me a good legal reason why you don't believe I shoudl have a PP, other than you just don't think I should have one; then I will take legal action. I don't want to, but if that's what it takes then fine. Pending charges don't mean anything, only what he was convicted of.



....I'll be honest, it does seem like there's more to this story than your telling; either you've met the cheif before and it ended badly or something happened where he was a grudge against you. When I got my CPL, I didn't even show up for the hearing (completely forgot about it) and I still got it in the mail a couple weeks later. Unless you have something on your record, some history or whatever you really shouldn't be denied a PP or a CPL for that matter
The difference b/w the CPL and PP is the CPL process is handled by Macomb County Sheriffs whereas the PP is handled by the city. I have never met the chief before today and he even told me he had no problem with me the problem was with my brother. I was calm and polite with him the whole time and explained to him that I have a lock on my door, and two gun safes. I didnt read him off laws I just asked him to let me know which requirement I didnt meet. And as for more to the story the only reason I can see them holding a grudge against me is for saying its pretty ridiculous it takes so long in Utica compared to Steriling Heights or Shelby. I have absolutely nothing on my record not even a speeding ticket and have only even been pulled over twice. He told me straight up that I meet all of the requirements it is my brother why he wont give it to me
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