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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #41
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I'm confused- wasn't one of the founding principles of America the separation of Church and State?

I think you need to read a little more.............and not on the internet. Try the Library. There is usually one in most cities.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #42
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No, I think its called common sense, and respect for fellow man and human life.

Blame game doesn't help anybody but internet thugs who want to swing their e-nads.
Common sense is telling others how to live? Respect for fellow man doesn't include pushing your beliefs on others. Look where that got us. Four more years of BO. That worked well huh?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #43
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Common sense is telling others how to live? Look where that got us. Four more years of BO. That worked well huh?

Sounds to me like your statement is pretty much telling everybody to get rid of religious people....................could it be you are talking out both sides of your mouth? Just asking?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #44
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Sounds to me like your statement is pretty much telling everybody to get rid of religious people....................could it be you are talking out both sides of your mouth? Just asking?
Well now you're almost getting it. I'm saying get religion out of politics and government. Pray to whoever you want, live your life by whatever book you wish to, just don't let that bleed into how we legislate. Or keep believing religious doctrine belongs in government and never see another GOP president again. Have your pick.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #45
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I think you need to read a little more.............and not on the internet. Try the Library. There is usually one in most cities.
Well....

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First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Congress cannot establish an 'official' religion, but for some reason Christianity pokes it's head into all sorts of 'official' business.

'Christian values' are basically common sense anyway.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #46
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Well....



Congress cannot establish an 'official' religion, but for some reason Christianity pokes it's head into all sorts of 'official' business.

'Christian values' are basically common sense anyway.
I don't see your point, but I do see someone who has been taught to hate Christians. You are no different then a racist.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #47
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I don't see your point, but I do see someone who has been taught to hate Christians. You are no different then a racist.
Holy shit. How did you reach that conclusion?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #48
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Well now you're almost getting it. I'm saying get religion out of politics and government. Pray to whoever you want, live your life by whatever book you wish to, just don't let that bleed into how we legislate. Or keep believing religious doctrine belongs in government and never see another GOP president again. Have your pick.

You believe Athiest Doctrine, you don't have any beliefs that go along with our government?
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #49
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I don't see your point, but I do see someone who has been taught to hate Christians. You are no different then a racist.
I hate Christians? News to me.

I defend your right to practice your religion, in fact I encourage you to do so. But, since I choose NOT to adhere to any religion, I do not wish my government to force a particular set of values upon me.

For example, if someone is against gay marriage and abortions, then they shouldn't marry a person of the same sex and they should carry a baby to full term and be responsible for it's upbringing. But since those are personal decisions, the government has no business interfering.

Now, if someone chooses to hide in the woods and shoot randomly at passing cars, the government has a duty to intervene. This action can affect anyone.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #50
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You believe Athiest Doctrine, you don't have any beliefs that go along with our government?
I have no clue what you're trying to ask me. Freedom of religion also covers freedom FROM religion. Why is mutual respect so hard to understand? You can believe whatever you want and I can believe what I want. The Christians miss this point when they try to legislate against others' choices. Last night was a prime example that this country will no longer be bullied by religion. It's a shame because I believe Romney would do a better job from an economic standpoint but he got way too mixed up with the religious crap.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #51
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I will chime in here only for a minute to stop your arguing. Freedom of religion simply states that the goverment shall not establish a religion and force it on the citizens. It does not state that any religious concept should be excluded from legislation. This is obvious from the Bill of Rights and Constitutional references to God. That being said, the government should NOT dictate religion to others, but it is fully expected that they should apply morale values (humanitarian) to law and enforcement.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:54 PM   #52
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I have no clue what you're trying to ask me. Freedom of religion also covers freedom FROM religion. Why is mutual respect so hard to understand? You can believe whatever you want and I can believe what I want. The Christians miss this point when they try to legislate against others' choices. Last night was a prime example that this country will no longer be bullied by religion. It's a shame because I believe Romney would do a better job from an economic standpoint but he got way too mixed up with the religious crap.
I wouldn't say 'crap', religion has some good ideas- not killing each other is a pretty good one. That's why Christians have never killed others in the name of God.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:56 PM   #53
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I will chime in here only for a minute to stop your arguing. Freedom of religion simply states that the goverment shall not establish a religion and force it on the citizens. It does not state that any religious concept should be excluded from legislation. This is obvious from the Bill of Rights and Constitutional references to God. That being said, the government should NOT dictate religion to others, but it is fully expected that they should apply morale values (humanitarian) to law and enforcement.
Thank you.

It's when candidates themselves invoke the name of God that they lose votes- not when the espouse moral values.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 09:58 PM   #54
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I have no clue what you're trying to ask me. Freedom of religion also covers freedom FROM religion. Why is mutual respect so hard to understand? You can believe whatever you want and I can believe what I want. The Christians miss this point when they try to legislate against others' choices. Last night was a prime example that this country will no longer be bullied by religion. It's a shame because I believe Romney would do a better job from an economic standpoint but he got way too mixed up with the religious crap.

The difference is, I'm not on a public web site "bad mouthing" Athiest.
........I trully hoped you would have caught that on your own.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #55
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For example, if someone is against ...abortions...But since those are personal decisions, the government has no business interfering.

Now, if someone chooses to hide in the woods and shoot randomly at passing cars, the government has a duty to intervene. This action can affect anyone.
Devil's advocate, and this has been debated ad nausium... if legislation should only address actions that involve one person affecting another person's rights; then both abortion and murder would be in violation since both involve one person deciding to kill another. Along the same lines, even murder of a burgular in self defense would be a violation of human rights. As would the death penalty. Now, don't get me wrong. I am against abortion, murder and the death penalty; but it seems like your position hand selects which violations you are going to prosecute, which is not unlike the point of view that religious beliefs may affect legislation.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:02 PM   #56
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I wouldn't say 'crap', religion has some good ideas- not killing each other is a pretty good one. That's why Christians have never killed others in the name of God.
The crap I was referring to was specific to this election; gay marriage, abortion, contraception, etc. This election was far more important than the next four years as the current potus will likely appoint multiple Supreme Court justices. Justices who will likely hear multiple landslide cases that will shape the future of this country. Romney leaned too far right, with his religion bleeding into his positions, and people got freaked out.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #57
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Thank you.

It's when candidates themselves invoke the name of God that they lose votes- not when the espouse moral values.
Very true. They run the risk of loosing votes by bringing God into their plateform, but they don't violate any religious freedoms by doing so. In fact, they are invoking their own personal freedom to express religion.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #58
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I think Romney and the GOP's biggest problem was managing the "sound bite " campaign. They don't seem to understand that anything that say, in any setting, public or private, can be recorded and uploaded to the internet instantly.

While maybe it was true that 47% would never vote for him, for someone that already came across as from the elite uber-rich, it was a stupid thing to say.

And as someone that has been involved with companies that has sent jobs overseas, he should have checked on the validity of the news report he was siting when he claimed that all Jeep production was going to China.

Those 2 comments, plus a few stupid things said by others in the GOP about rape probably cost him the election.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:04 PM   #59
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The difference is, I'm not on a public web site "bad mouthing" Athiest.
........I trully hoped you would have caught that on your own.
Where did I bad mouth? I spoke negatively of the concept of Christians pushing their religion on others via politics (as everyone should) but never said Christians were bad.
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Old November 7th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #60
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The crap I was referring to was specific to this election; gay marriage, abortion, contraception, etc. This election was far more important than the next four years as the current potus will likely appoint multiple Supreme Court justices. Justices who will likely hear multiple landslide cases that will shape the future of this country. Romney leaned too far right, with his religion bleeding into his positions, and people got freaked out.
Again, this affects his "electability" but he is free to express his religious beliefs. Mind you, this is coming from a Christian (me) about Romney who is not a Christian.

Regarding the contraception issue, this can be construed as a violation of the first ammendment rights to practice religion free from prosecution. In the case of the catholic organizations (which also, I am also not a catholic); they have the freedom/right to say that they will not provide contraception to their employees since it is strictly against their religious beliefs.
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