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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #241
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Im a christian, raised by christians and most of my family is christians. 99% of my family will vote for social values that align with there beliefs first, and political/policy issues second. Though I do agree on the GOP stance on social issues, I would not have an issue if a GOP candidate didnt stand for that. First thing anyone person should consider regardless of beliefs is will this candidate provide the best safety for our nation, secondly we need a candidate to cut spending, and create a great business case for business growth/jobs in the US. The biggest issue with many christians is they get hung up on a lot of the social issues. Then they express there feelings in such a passionate way it comes across as judgmental to people that dont think the same way. If Christians/GOP wanted to have a better image towards non christians or Libs they would take a more sincere aproach towards other peoples beliefs. I dont think of a gay person any different then anyother person. You have to show love to all people and beliefs.
True, we are all sinners that either repent and follow God or dont. I can not vote for someone that caters to sinners (gays) or murders (abortion). To me it is black or white and the reason this world is so screwed up is because some where along the line many started to believe it was okay to live in different shades of grey.

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Old November 10th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #242
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The real frustration is that a presidential candidate really has little to no direct influence over the social issues. So Obie has "evolved" in his thinking around gay marriage. When will it become legalized? Last I saw, that's a state issue and the President doesn't have the power to unilaterally enact legislation.

Likewise,the President lacks the magic wand to affect changes to abortion, etc...

The "social issues" are distractions that keep the bulk of the unthinking sound bite electorate from asking real questions about the economy, wars, nuclear Iran, Libya, flexibility for Putin, specifics on energy policy, etc....
True but he does have direct influence on appointing super liberal judges and I'm not sure how much time a few of the Supreme Court justices have left.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #243
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True, we are all sinners that either repent and follow God or dont. I can not vote for someone that caters to sinners (gays) or murders (abortion). To me it is black or white and the reason this world is so screwed up is because some where along the line many started to believe it was okay to live in different shades of grey.
Pretty damn narrow minded. Thankfully those with such antiquated views are becoming the minority. The same mindset would have interracial marriage be a crime and wouldn't have allowed women to vote. Look what happened there. Times changed, the laws evolved and we're still free.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #244
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the real important issue at hand, should I give up and bail on the American Artillery tech tree, or buy the molasses slow Priest?
I keep hearing that the American arty is so much more accurate, etc... I prefer to play arty and use my SU-8. I've gone American, German, and higher up the Russian tree and have the best luck with the SU-8. And you don't know slow until you get a heavy.

And while a president can recommend über-polarized justices, they do need to be confirmed.

As a conservative, rather than I skew liberal on social issues. I'm pro-choice (but think it needs to be addressed as a law, not via SCOTUS imagination). I support gay marriage, as longs as all "same sex partner" benefits are eliminated and its understood that churches who's teachings don't support gay marriage are to be left alone.

Now, as a conservative, I have zero tolerance for illegal aliens. We have 8%+ unemployment, and need to ensure we fully employ and engage the citizenry before turnings blind eye toward hoards of illegal aliens living among us, bleeding the system.

As far a s legalizing weed, I'm torn. On one hand, it's similar to prohibition while on the other, data shows weed to be a gateway drug for many. More data is needed.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #245
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Just because I believe that marriage should be between 1man and 1woman and abortion is murder I'm a failure. According to you and a few of your friends and probably more of society than I'd like to think of.
I am so glad that I do not have to look to you or society to determine who i am. I look to God for approval not man. So I could really care less of your opinion of me or other Christians.
Still avoiding my question I see.....how are you being closed minded and strong in your beliefs bringing anyone together?

Dint bother answering, I don't expect a logical explanation.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #246
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Still avoiding my question I see.....how are you being closed minded and strong in your beliefs bringing anyone together?

Dint bother answering, I don't expect a logical explanation.
He was also unable to respond regarding how gay marriage will degrade society as a whole.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #247
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True, we are all sinners that either repent and follow God or dont. I can not vote for someone that caters to sinners (gays) or murders (abortion). To me it is black or white and the reason this world is so screwed up is because some where along the line many started to believe it was okay to live in different shades of grey.
not singling you out here Drew, but who did you pick for, and which sin being catered to did you zero in on as chief of importance, and how did you rank/prioritize that?

Romney, for all of his intelligence and business acumen still denies the Lord through his Mormon faith. And while it's not up to me judge him in any fashion, let alone his charitable contributions I can't help but wonder if he can pass through the eye of a needle with a billion+ net worth.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 04:19 PM   #248
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I keep hearing that the American arty is so much more accurate, etc... I prefer to play arty and use my SU-8. I've gone American, German, and higher up the Russian tree and have the best luck with the SU-8. And you don't know slow until you get a heavy.
I keep seeing impressive kill#'s with the SU's - and I can't help but liking the Marder and Hetz from the german line.

My T40 is fun, but the camo index is apparently not very good based on how many times I get sniffed out lately and haven't moved, or fired a shot whilst buried in deep cover
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Old November 10th, 2012, 04:35 PM   #249
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I keep seeing impressive kill#'s with the SU's - and I can't help but liking the Marder and Hetz from the german line.

My T40 is fun, but the camo index is apparently not very good based on how many times I get sniffed out lately and haven't moved, or fired a shot whilst buried in deep cover
I traded my Hetzer in for a StuG III and its a good time.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 04:44 PM   #250
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I traded my Hetzer in for a StuG III and its a good time.
decisions, decisions. I don't have anything higher than tier 4 still, working on maximizing them, and building up coinage/xp.

last battle against tier6 armor, the T40 scored 7 direct hits, 5 were penetrations and got zero kills

ah well, off to see "Here comes the boom"
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Old November 10th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #251
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Exactly. And looking like a bigoted fool while trying to control others who just want to live their lives.
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Abe, are you willing to admit that you're only against same-sex marriage because you think your bible tells you to and don't have anything to back up your claim that society will go down the shitter?
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Your answers are slipperier than a politician in heat.

You are proving my point by your own actions stating that not sitting on the fence and having your convictions will bring us all together when in fact its just proving what kind of kook you really are and that those of us with an open mind are willing to consider the right candidate for the job, not the candidate who says that abortion is bad, gay marriage is bad, and nothing else matters.

You're just as socially inept as those who voted for obama for the eact opposite reasons as you. Obama could have had the best plan of action for this nation and you still wouldn't have voted for him because he supports liberal social issues.

You're a failure to your fellow man, and god.
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Good, great...that's what you believe. No one is saying that's a problem. We're saying it's a problem that you and people like you want to force it on everyone else. What gives you the right? Just because "God" supposed said so to people who wrote it in a book a couple thousand years ago?
Ok, It all comes down to as Christians we have the job to tell others about Jesus.
We are to let them know how sin separates us from God.
By accepting Christ as our savior He forgives our sins.
If we die in our sin without knowing or accepting Christ we spend eternity separated from Him.
Jesus spoke more of hell then He did of heaven.
Hell was not created for people, it was created for satan and fallen angels.
That is why myself and Christians are so persistant in trying to convince others that they are going in the wrong direction and need to follow Jesus.
You may not beleive what I am saying but that does not change what His Truth is.
As Christians we should be bold in our attempt inform others of their pending fate. Even if it means that some will get offended, because of the feeling of conviction that person has.
As Christians we should not keep the good news of the Gospel to ourselves.
I have not, but obviously with the crowd we have here, nobody is interested.
We are not garenteed our next breath. So make sure it counts.
Abe.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #252
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Ok, It all comes down to as Christians we have the job to tell others about Jesus.
We are to let them know how sin separates us from God.
By accepting Christ as our savior He forgives our sins.
If we die in our sin without knowing or accepting Christ we spend eternity separated from Him.
Jesus spoke more of hell then He did of heaven.
Hell was not created for people, it was created for satan and fallen angels.
That is why myself and Christians are so persistant in trying to convince others that they are going in the wrong direction and need to follow Jesus.
You may not beleive what I am saying but that does not change what His Truth is.
As Christians we should be bold in our attempt inform others of their pending fate. Even if it means that some will get offended, because of the feeling of conviction that person has.
As Christians we should not keep the good news of the Gospel to ourselves.
I have not, but obviously with the crowd we have here, nobody is interested.
We are not garenteed our next breath. So make sure it counts.
Abe.
I realized a while ago that you are doing what you believe to be what God has instructed you to do: and respect you for it.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #253
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not singling you out here Drew, but who did you pick for, and which sin being catered to did you zero in on as chief of importance, and how did you rank/prioritize that?

Romney, for all of his intelligence and business acumen still denies the Lord through his Mormon faith. And while it's not up to me judge him in any fashion, let alone his charitable contributions I can't help but wonder if he can pass through the eye of a needle with a billion+ net worth.
The guy who could fix the economy. He happened to not belong the party that removed God from their platform and then booed when God was reinstated.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #254
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Fine.

You are entitled to whatever beliefs you choose. I do not look down on anyone because of there faith. Or believe my side is better then your side. If you choose to change sides then so be it. If a gay woman chooses to date another gay woman then I have no problem with it. They are happy and I am happy for the love that they share. Excluding them because of there beliefs or practices is child like. I understand what the book(s) say and without countering with passages starting a snowball effect I will just say I myself do not judge other people because it is not my place. You may have opinions but you have little say in the manner. People are going to do whatever they want if you agree with it or not so simply be happy for them. Wars have been started, life's lost, family's destroyed, all because one side thought it was better then the other. Yet, we still learn nothing.
I believe is standing up for what you believe in. But, do not get it confused that your practices are superior to others. Everything is flawed in some way.

If being together brings them happiness then so be it. If you have enough faith to believe your beliefs you already know the fate that bestows them so shut up about pushing whats right and wrong on them and let them be happy.

There are only 3 things I truly hate. Rape, abuse, and killing. Those 3 in my book will get your broken dismembered form waking up in a swamp somewhere. The rape and abuse can easily be handled rightfully. The killing is something the person will need to live with for there entire life. They will suffer with there own guilt and shame being much worse then anything you can possibly inflict.

My idea of being better is to help people throughout your life not tell them what is right and wrong. Get out from behind the podium and give a total stranger a helping hand. That type of deed will do more good then preaching to those whom you look down upon.

Of course this is simply my opinion take it or leave it.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 07:46 AM   #255
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Fine.

You are entitled to whatever beliefs you choose. I do not look down on anyone because of there faith. Or believe my side is better then your side. If you choose to change sides then so be it. If a gay woman chooses to date another gay woman then I have no problem with it. They are happy and I am happy for the love that they share. Excluding them because of there beliefs or practices is child like. I understand what the book(s) say and without countering with passages starting a snowball effect I will just say I myself do not judge other people because it is not my place. You may have opinions but you have little say in the manner. People are going to do whatever they want if you agree with it or not so simply be happy for them. Wars have been started, life's lost, family's destroyed, all because one side thought it was better then the other. Yet, we still learn nothing.
I believe is standing up for what you believe in. But, do not get it confused that your practices are superior to others. Everything is flawed in some way.

If being together brings them happiness then so be it. If you have enough faith to believe your beliefs you already know the fate that bestows them so shut up about pushing whats right and wrong on them and let them be happy.

There are only 3 things I truly hate. Rape, abuse, and killing. Those 3 in my book will get your broken dismembered form waking up in a swamp somewhere. The rape and abuse can easily be handled rightfully. The killing is something the person will need to live with for there entire life. They will suffer with there own guilt and shame being much worse then anything you can possibly inflict.

My idea of being better is to help people throughout your life not tell them what is right and wrong. Get out from behind the podium and give a total stranger a helping hand. That type of deed will do more good then preaching to those whom you look down upon.



Of course this is simply my opinion take it or leave it.

And it is a very good opinion at that.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 08:26 AM   #256
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Ok, It all comes down to as Christians we have the job to tell others about Jesus.
We are to let them know how sin separates us from God.
By accepting Christ as our savior He forgives our sins.
If we die in our sin without knowing or accepting Christ we spend eternity separated from Him.
Jesus spoke more of hell then He did of heaven.
Hell was not created for people, it was created for satan and fallen angels.
That is why myself and Christians are so persistant in trying to convince others that they are going in the wrong direction and need to follow Jesus.
You may not beleive what I am saying but that does not change what His Truth is.
As Christians we should be bold in our attempt inform others of their pending fate. Even if it means that some will get offended, because of the feeling of conviction that person has.
As Christians we should not keep the good news of the Gospel to ourselves.
I have not, but obviously with the crowd we have here, nobody is interested.
We are not garenteed our next breath. So make sure it counts.
Abe.
Ok, that's all well and good, but it has NOTHING to do with what I have asked you three times.

How does your conviction in your beliefs and your extreme views bring people together more so than the "fence sitters" (your term, I consider them open minded people open to comprimise for the good of all the varied people in our nation who are willing to come together)?

Don't use the word god, don't talk about religion, just explain to me how someone who is closed minded, unwilling to comprimise, and not open to new ideas is going to bring people together.

I'm giving you another try, because thats what an open minded person who would like to see people come together would do.....I am skeptical that you can do it, but I figure since you're a pretty decent guy you're worth at least one more shot.

ready set........go.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 09:05 AM   #257
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I'm not sure about the president's real impact on the gay marriage issue, but, I know people voted heavily on social issues this election given the age of current Supreme Court Justices. It is highly likely that the current president will appoint multiple justices as the current ones die or retire. Given that, it would be reasonable for Roe v. Wade to be in jeopardy if Romney had won and appointed equally conservative justices (which he would have). I also think gay marriage will reach the SCOTUS in the next four years and if not extending them the same rights is deemed unconstitutional, it will be impacted at the federal level. This election is far greater than the next four years as Supreme Court judges tend to stick around for a LONG time.
That raises another perversion of our system.

The SCOTUS's role in legislation is only to validate the Constitutionality of any disputed legislation - NOT to create legislation via the judiciary, like Roe v. Wade. Roe v. Wade was a case where the SCOTUS created legislation instead of interpreting it, meaning that it's always going to be viewed as illegal by many.

This and Brown v. Board of Education were cases of judicial activism - or cases where the SCOTUS was used to implement laws that the legislators were afraid to touch. This did not happen prior to Brown, and it a clear misuse of the judiciary - who have no accountability to voters - too let politicans off the hook when it comes to making tough decisions.

Personally, I'd like to see Roe tossed out, and implemented the right way - as a specific piece of legislation or even a constitutional amendment.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #258
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Ok, that's all well and good, but it has NOTHING to do with what I have asked you three times.

How does your conviction in your beliefs and your extreme views bring people together more so than the "fence sitters" (your term, I consider them open minded people open to comprimise for the good of all the varied people in our nation who are willing to come together)?

Don't use the word god, don't talk about religion, just explain to me how someone who is closed minded, unwilling to comprimise, and not open to new ideas is going to bring people together.

I'm giving you another try, because thats what an open minded person who would like to see people come together would do.....I am skeptical that you can do it, but I figure since you're a pretty decent guy you're worth at least one more shot.

ready set........go.
I do enjoy your willing ness and open mindedness to give me another shot
You do know that because I use "G's" word to guide my life it will be almost impossible to give you and answer but I will try.
My views are not extreme to me but to you and others it may seem out of the ordinary to hold fast to something we see as not normal.
Abortion is a complete no'no'. That is murder. While the baby is in the womb of the mother it is another person and is not the mother's body. As women would say." it is my my body and I'll do with it as I please".
The gay life style......well it does not affect me directly. They can live that way if they like.
I will need to think on this alittle more, I'll get back to you.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #259
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I give up....its simple, how is your closed mind bringing anyone together ?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #260
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You can't reason with anyone who has been blinded by the light. Thats with any religion ,not just christian's.
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