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Old November 2nd, 2012, 01:45 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Don't kid yourself, both sides do it. And in most situations there's plenty of blame to go around for both sides.
And that is the typical liberal response when called out on it.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 01:49 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by 8PTBUCK View Post
Your from Ohio, everybody from Ohio likes Obama. Some odd reason they think he saved the auto industry.



Now that you say that (and I think about it), your right. Ooops looks like I really do like Clinton
Im from Ohio and Im UAW member working for an auto parts supplier, so I would like to comment on this. Not every body from Ohio is pro BO. the polls reflect that. In fact many of my union co-workers hate BO. We know that the bailout was not a bailing out of the company but a bail-out of the unions. We know the stock value of the companies have dropped drastically and those of us who have or had stock in auto companies lost much of our retirement. Yes, many of us still have our jobs but we recognize the instability in our business. I never voted for BO and I can tell you many of my co-workers who voted for BO last time, wont be casting a ballot for him this time. I never voted for Clinton but, man do I miss him!

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Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:46 PM   #163
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And that is the typical liberal response when called out on it.
And that is the typical response from someone that can't think for themselves but has to label everything "liberal" or "conservative".
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 03:28 PM   #164
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The problem is that even the candidate will largely continue with the status quo.

Eisenhower didn't eliminate the New Deal as he should have. He did manage to avoid getting us into Vietnam, built the interstate system, kept the USSR at bay and generally did a great job. Probably the most under-appreciated President ever.

JFK would be a if he ran today (based on positions).

Johnson was a huge idiot who expanded the Vietnam war (while simultaneously placing restrictive rules of engagement in place to prevent us from winning it) and saddled us with a huge "Great Society" welfare state.

Nixon didn't eliminate the Great Society when he should have, and instead expanded it and created the EPA.

Ford was a placeholder - after Watergate nobody was doing anything.

Carter was an Obama - an idealist who wanted to transform the country and instead screwed everything up, wrecked the economy, and made every tinpot dictator think they had a shot at knocking us off the throne. The U.S. isn't just another nation among nations - saying or acting like we are gets people klilled.

Reagan redeemed our national prestige, defeated the USSR without firing a shot, and rlaid the groundwork that rescued the economy. He restored our military, giving hardworking earnest young engineers a reason to quit working at UPS...

Bush 1 was a placeholder who tried to not screw up Reagan's work.

Clinton was a classic professional politician - perhaps the best of our times. He was also smart enough not to screw up the economy that he inherited from Reagan. He also know how to talk like a far-leftie, without doing too much about it (i.e. gifted politician) - so he got credit for it without actually doing damage.

Dubya was a dyed-in-the-wool - but not a conservative. He believed in JFK-like nation-building and thought that there was such a thing as "good big government".

Obama is a marketing concept, a person with no real qualifications to be President other than a look, who was backed up by the level best electoral organization the country (or perhaps world) has ever seen. The marketeers made a freshman Senator with two nondescript terms in the IL state house, no economic background, no foreign policy background, and no executive/leadership experience into a viable - no, dominant - candidate. are MUCH better at politics than - and this was their absolute masterwork. Put him in a good (but not TOO good) suit in front of a teleprompter with a great, rehearsed speech backed up with top-shelf marketeers peddling concepts around him ("hope", "change") and stand back. It will be studied for decades. Obama is a concept, and as we've seen, the man doesn't measure up to it. That's what the 1st debate with Romney was - the 1st time in years (perhaps ever) that Obama encountered someone who openly disagreed and challenged him. He was shocked.

Bottom line, electing Obie means more years of stagnation as the in the house and senate fight him - at least until he's impeached over Libya - which will distract us for years and the economy will continue to limp and sink. Electing Romney means the economy will get some attention and Obamacare can be stopped (or slowed), until the midterm elections and we get more in congress and gridlock sets back in.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:10 PM   #165
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The problem is...


This here is why Duff and I can agree on alot and respectfully disagree on other things.



Calling it like it is and being loyal to only 1 party....the American party.

and I got to tell ya Duff.....nobody is more ready for this fawking thing to be over than me. Phone rings every 15 minutes, the TV commercials are relentless...CRAZY relentless, my mailbox has been packed for the last 10 days, traffic gets all shut down every other week, Jeeps going to China...
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:22 PM   #166
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This here is why Duff and I can agree on alot and respectfully disagree on other things.



Calling it like it is and being loyal to only 1 party....the American party.

and I got to tell ya Duff.....nobody is more ready for this fawking thing to be over than me. Phone rings every 15 minutes, the TV commercials are relentless...CRAZY relentless, my mailbox has been packed for the last 10 days, traffic gets all shut down every other week, Jeeps going to China...


Got that right! Buckeyes are getting hammered with the junk mail and tv commercials. I dont watch tv much now. I took my paperbox down (not getting a paper anyway) because of all the junk crammed in the box. The mail box is has mostly glossy, heavy stock post cards from both parties. So ready to have this over with. one positive thing is my neighborhood isnt littered with election signs this time. Guess nobody wants their house vandalized.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:27 PM   #167
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I'm not pro obama by any means, but hell a vote for romney is a vote for tax breaks for millioniares. I mean he isn't going to shrink the government, and he needs to get revenue comming in, and less going out. His plan is to cut the mortgage tax deduction, the child tax credit, and other things that working class families actually benefit from.
Not sure if he is going to give that money to the businesses like Snyder did (which I still cannot figure out why)

I see no diffirence between the 2.
Obama prints money and makes everything you own worth less and less adding to the feeling of I don't care anymore, let the gubment take care of me.

Romney and Ryan want to get rid of my retirement and job (I work for the railroad) and take whatever else they can get out of me. Most anti middle class duo I have seen yet.

I can't wait for this damn election to get over so I can determine which hill I am am going down. We are all going downhill, just some are going down a diffirent side than others.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:38 PM   #168
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Our government needs a total reset. Every current politician fired and a complete restoration to Constitutional Law. Keep the basic civil laws and reset from the ground up.

It's the only way we'll ever get back to what we're supposed to be. Too bad it'll never happen. The framework for our country has been trampled and "interpreted" for generations and look what we have. A completely crooked two party system that is overloaded with bureaucracy, "career politicians" and corruption.

It's pathetic in its entirety. We borrow billions from China, give it back to them as "foreign aid" and owe interest. We have multiple agencies all doing the same job under different names and they all pull millions in budgets. We have Representatives and Senators that band together to make sure legislation will never be passed (even if it would be beneficial to the entire country) simply because it was introduced by someone not in their party. Our rights are being stripped from us on a damn near daily basis.

Look how much money was spent just on this Presidential campaign. $2,000,000,000. Our infrastructure is crumbling around us and all of that money has been spent on commercials, pamphlets and phone calls. It's ridiculous.

Our country is diseased. Completely. It's a nonpartisan issue too!

We aren't going to make it another 20 years if we stay on this path.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:43 PM   #169
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I agree with ya, but your figures are wrong. They only spent 2B on tv advertising. Actual acounted money is over 6B on the actual campaigns not counting under the table funds for non afilliated groups.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:49 PM   #170
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I agree with ya, but your figures are wrong. They only spent 2B on tv advertising. Actual acounted money is over 6B on the actual campaigns not counting under the table funds for non afilliated groups.
Six billion dollars.

That's $1200 per person (rounding up to 500,000,000 people in the United States) spent on a campaign while people are starving, roads are crumbling, the real unemployment numbers are staggering and we're still at war trying to defeat (with one hand tied behind our back due to ROE) the greatest threat to the U.S. we have EVER seen.

It's pathetic.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 04:55 PM   #171
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Here is a great site that gives you visual examples of money value.
http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:25 PM   #172
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Here is a great site that gives you visual examples of money value.
http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/
That brings things into comparison and makes me sick
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:31 PM   #173
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my thought exactly
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:44 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by camccardell View Post
I'm not pro obama by any means, but hell a vote for romney is a vote for tax breaks for millioniares. I mean he isn't going to shrink the government, and he needs to get revenue comming in, and less going out. His plan is to cut the mortgage tax deduction, the child tax credit, and other things that working class families actually benefit from.
Not sure if he is going to give that money to the businesses like Snyder did (which I still cannot figure out why)

I see no diffirence between the 2.
Obama prints money and makes everything you own worth less and less adding to the feeling of I don't care anymore, let the gubment take care of me.

Romney and Ryan want to get rid of my retirement and job (I work for the railroad) and take whatever else they can get out of me. Most anti middle class duo I have seen yet.

I can't wait for this damn election to get over so I can determine which hill I am am going down. We are all going downhill, just some are going down a diffirent side than others.

Unfortunately, you're speaking a list of incorrect talking points.

R&R have repeatedly stated no tax breaks for millionaires - they would reduce the tax RATE for everyone, which benefits small businesses,which in turn employ people. These businesses don't have the deductions that individuals do. Now, to make up for the revenue reduction caused by the reduced rate, deductions would be eliminated or reduced )as mentioned). To put it really simply, would you rather pay a 20% tax rate with 5% worth of deductions or a straight 15%? It's all fear-mongering and class warfare. In reality, eliminating deductions works against millionaires who use the to weasel out of taxes...

The railroad retirement issue is a fictional scare tactic from mine worker and railroad union bosses to scare the membership into voting for Obama- especially in light of Obie's "war on coal". The fictional basis is that moving RR retirement into social security was allegedly in the Ryan budget plan (it isn't). It mentions SS is screwed up, but doesn't even reference RR retirement. Read into it -and not from a union newsletter. Union CEOs want to hang on to their power and influence.

And to be clear, Snyder did not "give money" to businesses. MI had a unique tax structure where businesses were double taxed, which repelled businesses. He fixed it. If you continue to chase off jobs, there are none to be had.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 05:49 PM   #175
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Reagan redeemed our national prestige, defeated the USSR without firing a shot, and laid the groundwork that rescued the economy. He restored our military, giving hardworking earnest young engineers a reason to quit working at UPS...
I get a kick out of people being in love with Reagan...I'll agree with the first part.

A major part of his economic policy was borrow and spend, the other half was trickle down.

It's easy to appear prosperous while spending someone else's money

Eventually, you have to pay the piper
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 06:15 PM   #176
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I get a kick out of people being in love with Reagan...I'll agree with the first part.

A major part of his economic policy was borrow and spend, the other half was trickle down.

It's easy to appear prosperous while spending someone else's money

Eventually, you have to pay the piper
Oh, he wasn't perfect. To rebuild the military and break the USSR (partially through outspending them) required borrowing. I'm not naive...

And for the record, I really enjoyed going from juggling boxes to building gas turbines... Every time I see an Osprey I get a little choked up...
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 06:31 PM   #177
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this election is typical of what we've faced over the last 50 years.....not voting FOR someone as much as voting AGAINST the other one
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 08:05 AM   #178
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Unfortunately, you're speaking a list of incorrect talking points.

R&R have repeatedly stated no tax breaks for millionaires - they would reduce the tax RATE for everyone, which benefits small businesses,which in turn employ people. These businesses don't have the deductions that individuals do. Now, to make up for the revenue reduction caused by the reduced rate, deductions would be eliminated or reduced )as mentioned). To put it really simply, would you rather pay a 20% tax rate with 5% worth of deductions or a straight 15%? It's all fear-mongering and class warfare. In reality, eliminating deductions works against millionaires who use the to weasel out of taxes...

The railroad retirement issue is a fictional scare tactic from mine worker and railroad union bosses to scare the membership into voting for Obama- especially in light of Obie's "war on coal". The fictional basis is that moving RR retirement into social security was allegedly in the Ryan budget plan (it isn't). It mentions SS is screwed up, but doesn't even reference RR retirement. Read into it -and not from a union newsletter. Union CEOs want to hang on to their power and influence.

And to be clear, Snyder did not "give money" to businesses. MI had a unique tax structure where businesses were double taxed, which repelled businesses. He fixed it. If you continue to chase off jobs, there are none to be had.
Well I get about 10% in deductions, and I don't believe for a minute that romney is going to lower my federal taxes by that much. So I would account that as me paying more.

As far as snyder fixing the business tax, that is all fine and good. Why does he need to increase our taxes to fix that then? Why not cut spending instead? I am not sure how businesses were being double taxed though. Have any info on this?

As far as the union news letter, you are correct. However Romney has said that he would cut funding to Amtrack. So yes, that would be painful to me. I don't work for them, but I do operate on their lines. It could make a difference of weather I get to stay in Michigan or have to move away to another state for lower wages. That is Fact.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 10:28 AM   #179
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Oh, he wasn't perfect. To rebuild the military and break the USSR (partially through outspending them) required borrowing. I'm not naive...
The USSR was never broken. Just playing possum. It's a trick.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 10:50 AM   #180
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The USSR was never broken. Just playing possum. It's a trick.
The USSR was broken when all the communist nations defected then turned to democracies. However, Russia even though its a capitalist nation I'm not sure how democratic they are, seems to hang onto its old Soviet leaders. Ex-KGB Vladimir Putin comes to mind.
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