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Old October 26th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #1
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Arrow need input - budget 351W power and durability build

I need to preface this by saying that whatever mods I do have to be RELIABLE. This is not for a drag car. It neds to run overtemp on shitty fuel near WOT for 2+ hours at a time without truning off. Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over...

The long term plan is to build a stroker. At this point, I can't afford to machine a block, purchase a rotating assembly, etc. So I think I am going to proceed with just building a 351W with good heads and pistons, and leaving the lower end stock (if it can take it, which I assume it can). I will upgrade the heads, intake, cam, fuel and pistons. That is all, unless there is an OEM part that won't be able to keep up (timing maybe?). Then down the road, I will build a lower end and re-use all the other parts, instead of buying things twce.

Fuel management will remain OEM (MAF, EECIV)

Here is my first cut at what I want to do;
HEADS - AFR 220 if I can find a good set used OR Ford racing X head
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=9995
OR
For now, find any cheap used head that has descent flow. A worked over GT40P might even be in the running.

Intake
Trick Flow R series manifold
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51511006/
90mm MAF and TB (already have)

CAM
I hear mixed reviews about every cam out there. Remember this is not a drag car. I need good quality near idle and proper drivability. I also need it to co-exist with OEM EFI.
Right now I am leaning toward the Ford F303
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6250-F303/

Injectors
This is another choice I am stuggling on. I need injectors that will work well with the flow of a 351W, and hopefully again with a 408W. I don't want to buy these twice. I am leaning towards 42s, and hope that low end tuning with the 351 isn't a problem.

Pistons
I need help on this. I want to run on pump fuel, so 10:1 tops for AL heads.



My main concern is that with the 351ci build, the intake and injectors will be oversized for the flow requirements..... So... what are your thoughts? What would you buy?

Anyone have any used parts laying around they want to sell?
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Old October 26th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #2
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Use a marine motor, built to spin high rpm all day long.

get a 351 out of a ski boat, 300-350 hp, can maintain 4500-5000 RPM all day with out being annoyed at all.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 01:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
Use a marine motor, built to spin high rpm all day long.

get a 351 out of a ski boat, 300-350 hp,
proof please

as far as I know, the Ford Marine blocks and heads aren't anything special, just special cam
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Old October 26th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bones View Post
proof please

as far as I know, the Ford Marine blocks and heads aren't anything special, just special cam
my father's 1997/8 nautique has a 5.8 fuel injected Ford motor that was rated at 310 horsepower. The boat never idles (they own a pontoon boat) and has over 250+ hours on it. At wakeboard speed it turns about 2500 RPM, slalom ski speed you are talking 4000 ish, barefooting it runs 4800 RPM.

I don't know what proof you want, I don't know what they build them with, but they can take prolonged high rpm abuse.

Look up the 5.8 GT40, the mercruiser scorpion (though I believe its chevy based).

Also plenty of old 351w's with a carb out there running about 240hp, but that isn't what you want.

I know in reading a lot of boat forums when I was interested in offshore boating there was a distinct difference in the cams, rods, pistons, they put into boat motors due to the prolonged high rpm abuse. I would personally think a stock 351 out of a ski boat would be able to handle the type of abuse you want to put it through and have good low end toque, doubt you'll get real good high rpm numbers out of one though, they seem to fall dead around 5,000 rpm.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 01:25 PM   #5
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I'll start digging

For reference, my current motor is probably putting out 250hp on the crank in ideal situations.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 01:29 PM   #6
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this boat has the motor my dads boat has, the 5.8 w/gt40 heads.

Anyway, if its a viable option for you check out correctcraftfan.com all of the manuals are there in pdf format, including the manual for the motors and part numbers.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
I need to preface this by saying that whatever mods I do have to be RELIABLE. This is not for a drag car. It neds to run overtemp on shitty fuel near WOT for 2+ hours at a time without truning off. Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over and Over...

The long term plan is to build a stroker. At this point, I can't afford to machine a block, purchase a rotating assembly, etc. So I think I am going to proceed with just building a 351W with good heads and pistons, and leaving the lower end stock (if it can take it, which I assume it can). I will upgrade the heads, intake, cam, fuel and pistons. That is all, unless there is an OEM part that won't be able to keep up (timing maybe?). Then down the road, I will build a lower end and re-use all the other parts, instead of buying things twce.

Fuel management will remain OEM (MAF, EECIV)

I assume it will be tuned?

Here is my first cut at what I want to do;
HEADS - AFR 220 if I can find a good set used OR Ford racing X head
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...tKeyField=9995
OR
For now, find any cheap used head that has descent flow. A worked over GT40P might even be in the running.

I would stick with a cast head if it is gonna be run hot often, an old set of Cast Iron Trick Flow High Ports would be awesome and could be ported later for the bigger motor.

Intake
Trick Flow R series manifold
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51511006/
90mm MAF and TB (already have)

CAM
I hear mixed reviews about every cam out there. Remember this is not a drag car. I need good quality near idle and proper drivability. I also need it to co-exist with OEM EFI.
Right now I am leaning toward the Ford F303
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6250-F303/

I would just spend the extra hundred bucks or so and get a custom one done once you get all the rest of the combination sorted out.
Ed Curtis @ Flowtech Induction http://www.flowtechinduction.com or Chris Struab @ http://www.straubtechnologies.com would be my choice, both awesome with ford hyd. roller stuff


Injectors
This is another choice I am stuggling on. I need injectors that will work well with the flow of a 351W, and hopefully again with a 408W. I don't want to buy these twice. I am leaning towards 42s, and hope that low end tuning with the 351 isn't a problem

Pistons
I need help on this. I want to run on pump fuel, so 10:1 tops for AL heads.

Really need to get heads first and measure chambers before buying pistons, I have used Probe stuff in the past and it is really great stuff for the $$$, great cust. support as well.http://www.probeindustries.com I would probably stick with about 9:1 max, hot engine, shitty fuel and high loads is just asking for trouble, not worth the few extra HP IMOP.



My main concern is that with the 351ci build, the intake and injectors will be oversized for the flow requirements..... So... what are your thoughts? What would you buy?

Anyone have any used parts laying around they want to sell?
Edit:......If your bottom end is in good condition, you could probably just leave it alone and do heads, cam, intake
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Last edited by frdboy; October 26th, 2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 02:25 PM   #8
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The guy that owns the falcon you eye fucked the shit out of leaving Qdoba in GR 2 months ago along with frdboy would be worth giving a phone call....srsly
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Old October 26th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #9
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The guy that owns the falcon you eye fucked the shit out of leaving Qdoba in GR 2 months ago
lol... WTF? HAHAHA


and yes, everything will be tuned
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Old October 26th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #10
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Driving a M plate Conversion Van off of M-6 and Kzoo?
65 ford falcon
Or maybe you thought it was a fairlane

Not the bird,
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Old October 26th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
Driving a M plate Conversion Van off of M-6 and Kzoo?
65 ford falcon
Or maybe you thought it was a fairlane
... how in the hell...
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Old October 26th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frdboy View Post




Edit:......If your bottom end is in good condition, you could probably just leave it alone and do heads, cam, intake
I was honestly hoping you were going to reply with a list of parts that you had laying around haha.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 03:00 PM   #13
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... how in the hell...
You walked past S.Hembree and I when we were eating and walked out to your M plate van with wifey, admiring S.Hembree's car parked next to you along the way. I'm surprised she didn't slap you as much as you were staring.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
You walked past S.Hembree and I when we were eating and walked out to your M plate van with wifey, admiring S.Hembree's car parked next to you along the way. I'm surprised she didn't slap you as much as you were staring.
and you couldn't have said anything while we were there? lol
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Old October 26th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #15
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We're not famous race car drivers so it didn't seem right We thought it was you but weren't sure until you got in the M plate van.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frdboy View Post
I would stick with a cast head if it is gonna be run hot often, an old set of Cast Iron Trick Flow High Ports would be awesome and could be ported later for the bigger motor.
What are your thoughts on just running a GT40 gen head with a piston to bump CR, plus a cam and probably injectors? Would there be any noticable power increase? The 5.8L truck intake should flow enough to feed a GT40 head, so I could save a lot of $$ that way, I just don't now how much power I would really get out of it.
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Old October 26th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #17
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you got in the M plate van.
that thing is pretty BA. V10, 6 speed and 4.10 gears....
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Old October 26th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feva4u View Post
You walked past S.Hembree and I when we were eating and walked out to your M plate van with wifey, admiring S.Hembree's car parked next to you along the way. I'm surprised she didn't slap you as much as you were staring.
Hahaha that is funny. You should have said hello.

Did you also see the kid throw up everywhere in the dining room?
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Old October 26th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #19
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that thing is pretty BA. V10, 6 speed and 4.10 gears....
I kind of want one of those.
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Old October 27th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
What are your thoughts on just running a GT40 gen head with a piston to bump CR, plus a cam and probably injectors? Would there be any noticable power increase? The 5.8L truck intake should flow enough to feed a GT40 head, so I could save a lot of $$ that way, I just don't now how much power I would really get out of it.
If your short block is ok, i would probably just mill the the heads to gain some compression. If you got some gt40's, milled them and had a good valve job and maybe some clean up work in the bowl area. A cam and maybe some 24 or 30 lb injectors probably would be a noticable increase. Keep an eye out for a lightning lower and then you could run an explorer upper with and that would also help.

Another option that could be used on a bigger motor later is a victor jr. carb intake and have injector bungs and rails installed, run a elbow adapter to a throttle body. More money up front but would be able to go on a 408. You can buy those manifolds all built or do it yourself.
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